# Destruction of, say, NYC, by nuclear missiles **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 13, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618 "2016-12-13T16:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/21 "2016-12-14T05:45:11Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > How long would it take for #21 or lower on the list to get up to speed given that a good portion of those who would help in that endeavor are nuclear dust? What’s there to “get up to speed”? All he needs to know is that Country X made the nuke that killed the first 20 guys in the line of succession, and give the order, and poof, no more Country X. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/22 "2016-12-14T05:50:54Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Who’s left to launch a evaluate the situation and launch a strike in retaliation? Even if you got the president and veep, SecDef and the entire joint chiefs of staff, our military would still be a very long ways from leaderless and / or lost. > **[List of components of the U.S. Department of Defense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_United_States_Armed_Forces)** > > The chain of command leads from the president (as commander-in-chief) through the secretary of defense down to the newest recruits. The United States Armed Forces are organized through the United States Department of Defense, which oversees a complex structure of joint command and control functions with many units reporting to various commanding officers. The following is an incomplete list of the various major military units, commands, and DOD offices and agencies, including civilian and m Joi... ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/23 "2016-12-14T05:51:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > OP: Consider this. > > I know for sure that Al Qaeda doesn’t have a nuke yet. How do I know that? Downtown NYC still exists. > > Nitey nite. Yeah, no kidding. To paraphrase Brad,\* “Life’s pretty cheap to those sorts”. - ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/24 "2016-12-14T06:41:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The reality is places like New York City, Los Angeles, and Chicago are not major targets for nuclear attacks. Nuking a big city would just give a country a good reason to retaliate while doing nothing to prevent that retaliation. > > If a foreign country launches a nuclear attack it will be aimed at our military. Targets will be things like command centers, missile bases, and air force bases. In a nuclear war, Knob Noster, Missouri would be more important than New York City. > > This is assuming we’re talking about a military attack. Terrorists have a different agenda. If terrorists get a hold of a nuclear weapon, they would target a big city. :dubious: I can think of a dozen targets in NYC off the top of my head, targets that an enemy nation would certainly visit. It’s a major transportation hub, huge port terminal,center of economic activity… yeah it’s going to check pretty much all the boxes for Russian decision makers. If the Russians go after JFK, La Guardia, Penn, Grand Central and the port, NYC is well and truly fucked, even if the did not technically target the city itself. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/25 "2016-12-14T06:45:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Even if you got the president and veep, SecDef and the entire joint chiefs of staff, our military would still be a very long ways from leaderless and / or lost. I was unaware that the US military can launch nukes on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/26 "2016-12-14T08:12:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If a foreign country launches a nuclear attack it will be aimed at our military. New York has the third most important port in the country. That’s a pretty big military target. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/27 "2016-12-14T08:44:42Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > This would be a _world disaster_, wouldn’t it? > > Every nation except maybe North Korea knows this, correct? > > It will never happen, even under the very very worst of circumstances short of NK getting serious intercontinental capabilities, right right? > > Right? > > I think it’s very plausible we’re going to have actual war sometime soon between the big guys, because holy shit Donald. > > Nobody’d actually take out population centers right? Right? Please? Yeah makes lot of sense. Someone who wants to live the high life wants to see everything consumed by nuclear fireballs. Because Donald? No. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/28 "2016-12-14T11:26:10Z")
I don’t know why everyone is so sanguine about the risk that North Korea will use its nuclear weapons. Leaders of Russia or China pursue a long-term path to world domination, so self-destruction would be counter to their aims, but Kim Jong-un is just a sociopath with personal appetites. If life turns against him, he might decide to go out in a blast of “fame and glory” much as the assassin of John Lennon did. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I disagree. A rational player isn’t going to nuke NYC or any random city as a war first strike against us. They’d target Charleston, New London, San Diego, Pearl harbor - cities with large military bases I don’t think a “rational player” starting a nuclear war with the U.S. will be concerned with in-country conventional bases. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/29 "2016-12-14T21:29:58Z")
All I know is this: 1. San Antonio has three bases, including the largest military medical training base in the US (Fort Sam Houston). 2. San Antonio was hit in [Warday](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warday). I don’t know if this has anything to do with anything, but I figured it was relevant. 3. I live in San Antonio. About 5 miles from Camp Bullis (to my NE), 9 miles from Fort Sam Houston (to my SE), and 12 miles from Lackland AFB. So, what do I care about NYC? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/30 "2016-12-14T23:46:45Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I was unaware that the US military can launch nukes on their own. I think the point is that a lot of thought and plans have gone into ensuring that the US government, including the capacity to lawfully launch counterattacks, will survive any and all attempts at a decapitating strike at DC or DC plus any number of other targets in quick succession. The specifics don’t matter. No matter what the other side does there \*will \*be a surviving US government. And it will be both heavily armed and highly pissed. Whether retaliation takes an hour, a day, or a week is immaterial. There \*will \*be a retaliation. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/31 "2016-12-15T00:52:41Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The specifics don’t matter. No matter what the other side does there \*will \*be a surviving US government. And it will be both heavily armed and highly pissed. Whether retaliation takes an hour, a day, or a week is immaterial. There \*will \*be a retaliation. It is during this period of chaos that many things are possible from an opponents perspective and the more of the ‘head’ that is cut off, the more chaos there is and the longer it lasts. If the enemy is unidentified (and capable), they could potentially string something like this out for quite a while causing all sorts of long term havoc. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/32 "2016-12-15T02:52:21Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > It is during this period of chaos that many things are possible from an opponents perspective and the more of the ‘head’ that is cut off, the more chaos there is and the longer it lasts. If the enemy is unidentified (and capable), they could potentially string something like this out for quite a while causing all sorts of long term havoc. Certainly. The plot of Dr. Strangelove depended on a plan that allowed a low level wing commander to launch an attack without NCA authority. That plan probably doesn’t exist in the real world. The publicly stated policy of the US is that it certainly doesn’t exist. There may however be classified levels of backup plan that don’t exactly need civil leadership approval at a time and place where none can be found and the need is judged as urgent. Nobody who knows is going to be talking about it here though. As a separate matter … One of the biggest problems with both cyberwarfare and smuggled nukes is we may be highly motivated to attack and fully capable of doing so but have zero idea of who to hit. The obvious risk for the rest of the world in that situation is that some intel analyst someplace will come up with a ranking of likely suspects with little confidence in any of the data. Which will slowly become more concrete as it rises up the bureaucracy until it’s a clear smoking gun by the time it gets to the NCA. Who \*will \*act on it. Sucks to be #1 on that list. One of the ideas I’ve suggested over the years is that perhaps the US has, or ought to, privately notify several Mideast nations that they will be assumed responsible for any nuclear attacks on US soil. And retaliated against accordingly. So it would behoove their clandestine services to keep the various Islamo-fascist terrorist factions under control. They’re much more capable of infiltrating and influencing these kinds of groups than we are. Diplomacy may take place in rooms full of nice furniture and produce communiques full of nice language. It isn’t a job for nice people. ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/33 "2016-12-18T11:20:13Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I think it’s very plausible we’re going to have actual war sometime soon between the big guys, because holy shit Donald. I want Russia to go into Kiev in the spring, and I want China to stir up some shit early too. The sooner the military is forced to lock Trump’s saggy balls away in box, the better off we’ll all be. Give him his cell phone and a fake “football” and let him do all his warring on Twitter. Looking forward to the flash crashes in the markets, though. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/34 "2016-12-18T14:31:04Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > I want Russia to go into Kiev in the spring, and I want China to stir up some shit early too. > > The sooner the military is forced to lock Trump’s saggy balls away in box, the better off we’ll all be. Give him his cell phone and a fake “football” and let him do all his warring on Twitter. > > Looking forward to the flash crashes in the markets, though. It seems more plausible Trump will be the one trying to start shit when his overpowered mouth and ego get in front of his underpowered brain and judgment center. The US is always at greater risk of outsider adventurism during the early days of a new administration. This time we’re also at greater risk of self-initiated adventurism. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/35 "2016-12-18T14:38:21Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > This would be a _world disaster_, wouldn’t it? > > Every nation except maybe North Korea knows this, correct? If the recent elections (Brexit, Trumpxit, various contests in Europe) have taught us anything, most of the world is pretty shitty at second-order thinking. People want to lash out without considering what the backlash might be. If you want to be frightened about something, be frightened about an India/Pakistan exchange. Many have talked themselves into the idea that it would be “only” a regional nuclear exchange, but the environmental and economic repercussions themselves would be unimaginably bad, probably worse than WW2. And that’s if it doesn’t escalate beyond India/Pakistan. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/36 "2016-12-18T18:39:13Z")
Can I suggest Los Angeles? We should totally nuke Los Angeles. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/37 "2016-12-18T19:17:43Z")
LA is upwind of the whole rest of the country. So not a good plan. If we’re trying to minimize the harm done to the rest of the country while still accepting the loss of a big city, Boston might be a good choice. Or Miami. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/38 "2016-12-19T01:05:35Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > LA is upwind of the whole rest of the country. So not a good plan. > > If we’re trying to minimize the harm done to the rest of the country while still accepting the loss of a big city, Boston might be a good choice. Or Miami. Isn’t the whole point of nuking another country to inflict maximum damage? Any place on the Left Coast would be ideal. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/39 "2016-12-19T01:53:32Z")
Well, yes that would be the \*enemy’s \*point. **Nachtmusick** seems to be an American with grudge against LA. I was inviting him to think again. On a ship they say that spitting to windward is a bad idea. Nuking to windward is an even worse one. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618/40 "2016-12-19T02:07:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > **Nachtmusick** seems to be an American with grudge against LA. I was inviting him to think again. It’s patently apparent to everyone else that he was being facetious. Lighten up, jeez. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/destruction-of-say-nyc-by-nuclear-missiles/774618.md?page=3)