# Details on Coaches and Harris Poll published **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 5, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137 "2011-12-05T16:27:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/1 "2011-12-05T16:27:44Z")
[Article](http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/12/how_did_they_vote_usa_today_co.html) [Coaches Poll Detail](http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/story/2011-final-coaches-ballots/51647436/1?csp=hf) [Harris Poll](http://www.harrisinteractive.com/vault/HICFP_Individual_Rankings_Dec_4_2011.pdf) No one voted Bama worst than #3 Several Coaches and Harris Pollsters voted OkSt worse the #3, including Saban (#4) who put Stanford ahead of them. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/2 "2011-12-05T16:34:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Notable coaches with Alabama No. 2 and Oklahoma State No. 3 included Les Miles (LSU), Gene Chizik (Auburn), Steve Spurrier (South Carolina), Mark Richt (Georgia), Bo Pelini (Nebraska), Frank Beamer (Virginia Tech). > > Notable coaches with Oklahoma State No. 2 and Alabama No. 3 included Bob Stoops (Oklahoma), Tommy Tuberville (Texas Tech), Al Golden (Miami) and Bret Bielema (Wisconsin). > > What about Alabama coach Nick Saban? He had the Crimson Tide ranked No. 2, and voted Oklahoma State No. 4 behind Stanford. > > Saban was not alone. David Shaw (Stanford), Gary Pinkel (Missouri), David Cutcliffe (Duke) and Doug Marrone (Syracuse) all voted the same. > > Air Force coach Troy Calhoun had Alabama No. 2 and Oklahoma State No. 5 behind No. 3 Stanford and No. 4 Arkansas. Scanning his Troy Calhoun wiki bio, he does not appear to have should not have built in bias for Bama, or against Ok State. Interesting (but not surprising) that Gary Pinkel, Missouri coach, voted for Bama rather than OkSt. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/3 "2011-12-05T16:36:15Z")
Yeah, so that’s pretty much what did it: some coaches ranked OK State as far down as 5th. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/4 "2011-12-05T16:43:18Z")
In the Harris Poll. Voting Ok state #4 in the Harris Poll: Sammy Batten (ACC blogger) Dave Braine (former Ga Tech AD, think he is an SEC advocate, not sure) Charlie Cavagnaro (former UNLV AD) Cavagnaro voted Va Tech #7 and Clemson #15 which seems strange. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/5 "2011-12-05T16:50:07Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > Several Coaches and Harris Pollsters voted OkSt worse the #3, including Saban (#4) who put Stanford ahead of them. Hooray for gaming the system! I guess it’s good that he didn’t pull a Mack Brown (as far as we know). ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/6 "2011-12-05T16:55:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Hooray for gaming the system! I guess it’s good that he didn’t pull a Mack Brown (as far as we know). How do you know he didn’t honestly feel that Stanford was a better team? After all, OK State has the 107th defense in the country. Don’t you think a defense guy like Saban might honestly feel something like that is important? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/7 "2011-12-05T17:00:33Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > How do you know he didn’t honestly feel that Stanford was a better team? You’re right. It’s not like he had a vested interest in ranking OSU as low as he could get away with. It probably never crossed his mind that those points might make a difference in getting his team to the championship game. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/8 "2011-12-05T17:03:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re right. It’s not like he had a vested interest in ranking OSU as low as he could get away with. It probably never crossed his mind that those points might make a difference in getting his team to the championship game. That’s not what I asked. Of course he had an interest, but 1) he wasn’t the only one who voted OK State low, and 2) why is it so dreadfully unnatural that a defensive coach would look awry at a team with the 107th-ranked defense in the nation? In other words, it’s not like he didn’t have some justification. In these situations, the disappointed fans always seem to lean toward conspiracy and corruption, but y’know…107. One Oh Seven. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/9 "2011-12-05T17:05:00Z")
**Ogre** , I’ve got to hand it to you: only an Alabama fan could have possibly posted that with a straight face. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/10 "2011-12-05T17:09:14Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > **Ogre** , I’ve got to hand it to you: only an Alabama fan could have possibly posted that with a straight face. Your insults don’t interest me. 107th in the nation. Anyone who doesn’t think that’s a potentially important statistic to voting coaches (you know, the guys who get paid to develop offensive and defensive schemes) is fooling themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/11 "2011-12-05T17:11:35Z")
So what you’re saying it that you cannot see at all how Nick Saban, coach of **Alabama** , would have any vested interest in all at ranking Stanford above OK State, which directly benefits **Alabama** ’s chances of reaching the BCS National Championship? Edit: Oh, by the way, if you think coaches actually fill out the Coaches’ poll themselves personally…well, I just don’t know what to say. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/12 "2011-12-05T17:16:27Z")
And I quote: > [@Ogre](#): > > Of course he had an interest , but 1) his vote wasn’t the only one, 2) he can vote any way he wants, and 3) there IS some real, honest-to-God justification for such a vote. It’s not as if he voted OK State #15 just to spike their wheel. He wasn’t even the coach who voted them lowest, for Pete’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/13 "2011-12-05T17:24:39Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > That’s not what I asked. Of course it isn’t. 😉 > [@](#): > > 1. he wasn’t the only one who voted OK State low Definitely true, and that’s why OSU isn’t in the title game. But he’s the only one who had a spot in the championship game riding on the vote and Alabama probably didn’t know how anyone else was voting (or what the computers were doing). > [@](#): > > 1. why is it so dreadfully unnatural that a defensive coach would look awry at a team with the 107th-ranked defense in the nation? I didn’t call it unnatural and I’m not positing a conspiracy. I am pointing out the obvious: it was in Alabama’s interest to vote OSU lower, and that’s what happened. You could just as easily argue that when Mack Brown was lobbying his colleagues to vote Texas into the championship game a few years ago, he sincerely believed Texas was one of the top two teams. He probably did believe it, but it’s flagrant bias. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/14 "2011-12-05T17:25:37Z")
What is being missed that is that 5 other coaches voted Ok State 4th or worse. Duke, Stanford, Syracuse, Missouri, and Airforce (5th). Cutcliffe of Duke is originally from Birmingham, but at ties to Ole Miss and Tennessee. Doug Marrone (Syracuse) and Dave Shaw (Stanford) has no apparent ties to SEC. and of course Missouri is headed from Big XII to SEC. so there is a conflict of interest. No clue why Air Force coach put OkSt all the way to #5. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/15 "2011-12-05T17:28:10Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > What is being missed that is that 5 other coaches voted Ok State 4th or worse. It hasn’t been missed. It’s just not what is being commented on. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/16 "2011-12-05T17:41:54Z")
I honestly don’t know who’s better, Alabama or OK State. But I think OK State’s “body of work” is slightly better than Alabama’s. That should be the deciding factor in a decision of this nature. Can anyone argue that Alabama’s body of work is better than OK State’s? If so, please justify. Because to me, @A&M, @Texas, @Missouri, Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma \> @PSU, Arkansas, Florida, Auburn That said, I hope Alabama beats LSU 3-2. National Champs indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/17 "2011-12-05T17:49:45Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I honestly don’t know who’s better, Alabama or OK State. But I think OK State’s “body of work” is slightly better than Alabama’s. That should be the deciding factor in a decision of this nature. Can anyone argue that Alabama’s body of work is better than OK State’s? If so, please justify. Because to me, @A&M, @Texas, @Missouri, Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma \> @PSU, Arkansas, Florida, Auburn > > That said, I hope Alabama beats LSU 3-2. National Champs indeed! Perhaps it’s a little better, but their sole loss is a whole lot worse. IMO, that’s what swung the votes (along with OSU stinking it up on the defensive side for most of the season). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/18 "2011-12-05T17:49:46Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I honestly don’t know who’s better, Alabama or OK State. But I think OK State’s “body of work” is slightly better than Alabama’s. Yeah- I’ve made fun of the “anything but a rematch!” argument a few times, which biased me toward Alabama a bit, but there’s a strong argument to be made that Oklahoma State beat better teams and had a tougher schedule. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/19 "2011-12-05T17:51:10Z")
I think at lot of pollster put a lot of stock in not who a team beats, but who they lost to. And Okie State lost to Iowa St, a team that lost to 6 other teams. And Bama lost to LSU who did not lose to any other team. When Bama put this schedule together years ago, Penn State is a perennial power in CFB, with three creme puffs. Okie State played Arizona, (a decent team, but not with Penn State history). Who would have thought Florida was going to be so bad this year? And Auburn? and Tennessee? And Penn St? 4 undisputed National Championships in the last 20 years. and several other disputed National Championships? You can only beat the teams that are on your schedule, which are in place several years ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137/20 "2011-12-05T17:55:58Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > You can only beat the teams that are on your schedule, which are in place several years ahead of time. True. But at the same time, there are only so many ways to evaluate teams that don’t play each other and play few or none of the same teams. I don’t think anyone is criticizing Alabama for _picking_ a soft schedule. They’re saying the teams that were on the field against Alabama were not all that good. You can’t give them credit for playing teams that won championships in the '80s and '90s. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/details-on-coaches-and-harris-poll-published/605137.md?page=2)