# Detente Invitation to Pro-Trump and Anti-Trump camps. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detente-invitation-to-pro-trump-and-anti-trump-camps/782171 "2017-03-14T16:30:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 162
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detente-invitation-to-pro-trump-and-anti-trump-camps/782171/162 "2017-03-16T23:19:35Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Trump isn’t just a prop. How can he _not_ be integral to the conversation? Then it seems you are either unwilling or unable to have a conversation in the spirit of this thread. The point is that this here is supposed to be focused on the supporters and detractors, not Trump himself. That’s how I interpret it. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Actually, you made a valid argument earlier: Ahem: > [@Question For Republicans: If Trump is elected...](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-for-republicans-if-trump-is-elected/760420/28): > > I think Trump winning would be a net plus but only if measured a particular way. It’s not because of any particular policy position or anything though. I think Trump will be ineffective, so whatever BS he pushes will likely not be enacted and will not have far reaching consequence. I think Clinton will actually be effective so what she pushes has a good chance to come to pass. > > I think the way most people are comparing the two misses this reality - it’s not just about who’s policy or other positions are better or worse, it also matters who will be more effective in enacting their agenda. > > So evaluating the two based on expected return and not simply based on the merits of their positions, and given that I want the federal government to do as little as possible, it tips the scales for Trump. Trump is still a dumbass though. Basically the same argument I made, pre-election. And so far, I still think it would be the right choice. While there’s a lot of soft stuff like consumer confidence, international stature, etc. that have been affected since the election, there is very little substantive things that have happened. Travel bans have been blocked, executive orders have been not very good, but not very impactful either. Lots of bluster and not a lot of action. In that regard, I think my analysis from way back still holds. The more controversy and outrage, the more scrambling the administration has to do and less effective it will be. That’s a plus for me - I want the federal government to do as little as possible. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > A thread about trump voters and others “getting along” and working it out, ignores that elephant in the room, and demands that we all guess at what donald is saying or meaning when he speaks or acts, as if he is some kind of oracle or automaton. That even though donald is lying, and incoherent, and his explainers are lying and incoherent, his voters are totally independent from this fact. I think this is beneath the dignity of an intelligent American frankly. > > In spite of this many people have asked this here and there hasn’t been a lot of content. Even the people pushing back have not taken the challenge. It’s all very watery. Unless someone comes in and does the thing it will be considered impossible. It isn’t possible just because it “must be.” People are not rational just because they “must be” or they are family. Of course Trump is incoherent. That to me is part of the package. It doesn’t really matter what he says or proposes as long as it is stymied. The details don’t matter if in the meta sense nothing really bad gets enacted. So far so good. * * * I really do wonder after Trump is no longer president, if those who supported larger government take a step back and rethink that position. To me a safeguard against the worst of Trump’s actions is a weaker federal government, one that doesn’t accrue to itself so much power, and is limited in its ability to act. I think one of the best results that could come from a Trump presidency is a newfound appreciation for limited government. So every time in the future there is a proposal that the government solve some problem with its huge swathe of powers, people first consider what a person like Trump could do with those powers, or someone even worse. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detente-invitation-to-pro-trump-and-anti-trump-camps/782171)._