# Detroit 911 operator refuses to send help **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749 "2006-04-07T17:39:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/61 "2006-04-08T00:00:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > And if it is policy, that’s exactly why you slap emergency services with a multi-million dollar lawsuit, and not just the operator. Yeah yeah, it’s the city you sue, not “emergency services” the hit in the pocketbook is felt across the budget. Everybody pays for this act of (alleged) idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/62 "2006-04-08T00:05:30Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > Well that we don’t know. AS far as I could tell there was nothing in the story that indicated one way or the other whether the operator’s indifference made a difference. The other worrying thing is, even if the emergency services could not have helped the mother the operator left a child alone for 3 hours with his dying/dead mother. It is bad enough that he had to watch his mother die without being alone with the body for 3 hours. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/63 "2006-04-08T00:08:14Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Oh I agree, but the known unknowns are staring us in the face…the fact that we don’t know where this call came from, and/or if it could be traced or located is a HUGE deal. Kids get ahold of their parents cellphones all the time, and even many de-activated ones can dial 9-1-1. If the dispatcher dismissed this as a prank on a wireline phone that was directly addressable, and this woman died in the interim, the dispatcher is, or at least SHOULD BE liable in her death, be fired, jailed, and tattooed with the the dead womans name. If this is true, more scorn to Detroit. In North Dakota if you make a 911 call from a cell phone, the emergency operators can trace it to a pretty samll area. As in , calling from a ditch in the middle of winter from rat’s-ass nowhere. If this technology isn’t available in the city of Detroit, it’s worse than I thought. And based on the story in the OP, this shouldn’t even be a point of contention. You get a call from a kid, you respond. You get 2 calls from the same kid, you respond. In the audio (did you listen to it?) you can hear the phone being hung up by the kid. Cell phones aren’t an issue here. It was a land line. And if it was a cell phone, with no info automatically fed to the operator pertaining to the location, she should have tried to at lease determine location before dismissing the kid’s call. Before asking for an adult she could have at least asked if he knew what city he was in if not what the address or neighborhood was. What if the only other adult was the passed-out boyfriend/husband? Get a clue of where the call is coming from before deciding it isn’t worth the effort. And if the two “responsible” adults you want to talk to aren’t in a position to keep the kids from making 2 prank 911 calls, maybe the authorities should know about it. Even if you’re stone-cold sober and your kids still make phony 911 calls, it may be a good idea to either let you know about it, or let the law take over rearing the offspring. Here’s another question. Why didn’t the operator call back if she thought it was a prank? If the kids were crank-calling a call back would alert the parents the phone was ringing, at least. If not, you have a 6 year old unsupervised, which isn’t so good. Or you have parents so far out of touch as to not wonder who’s calling the 6 year old. Mom was dead, so it isn’t on her. It’s on whoever is answering the phone to do her job to ensure the safety of the citizens paying her salary. Of course, it’s on the 911 operator’s boss to make sure teh 911 operator is doing her job. And if the boss sees nothing wrong with this, it’s his bitch. If this douchebag has a job overseeing the 911 operations next week, I’m giving up on Detroit altogether. I’m holding out hope for the city, but it’s only by a thread. Why has it been, what 20 years?, this argument has been going on? Detroit. Clean it up! You’re close to being a lost-cause. Hurry before it’s too late! ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/64 "2006-04-08T00:21:23Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > The operator was black. No race unless you really want to reach for it. I think it’s a systemic thing that has been a long time in the making… I’d be curious to know if she was an Affirmative Action hire. Not trying to be inflammatory here, but what _if_ there were other, more qualified, applicants who were not answering the emergency call that day because they were passed over in order to fill a quota or something? I’m just asking… By the way, a friend of mine was having trouble setting up a new phone and he somehow managed to accidentally hit 9-1-1. He freaked out and hung up. They called back immediately and asked if everything was OK. He said everything was fine, no problem. They said OK but they _still_ dispatched a cruiser to his house! ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/65 "2006-04-08T00:30:15Z")
Does this story mean we should start taking [this](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46937) seriously? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/66 "2006-04-08T00:31:32Z")
> [@stephe96](#): > > I’d be curious to know if she was an Affirmative Action hire. Not trying to be inflammatory here, but what if there were other, more qualified, applicants who were not answering the emergency call that day because they were passed over in order to fill a quota or something? I’m just asking… What if you had the brains god gave a flea? Then maybe you wouldn’t be so fuckin stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/67 "2006-04-08T00:41:25Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > What if you had the brains god gave a flea? Then maybe you wouldn’t be so fuckin stupid. I notice you never respond. You simply insult. ---
**Author:** ![mojave66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@mojave66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mojave66)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/68 "2006-04-08T01:00:57Z")
It’d be an awfully big stretch to have a crappy “affirmative action” hire in a city that’s 21% African-American, and that’s even assuming that there’d be 4 white job competitors for every African-American competitor (which is quite a stretch given the race & class divide). Say there are 20 applications for every dispatcher’s job, that’s still 4 African-American applications, and certainly there must be at least one competent application in that set of 4. You also have to take into account her 30 years-- if she was truly incompetent, she would have been fired (or Peter Principle’d) years ago. All that being said, she has absolutely NO excuse for dismissing that youngster’s call, and the City of Detroit has absolutely NO excuse for not firing her. If it is a Union thing, well, the Union should be sued along with the city (and I say this as a member of the CWA). What happened to that child is indefensible. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/69 "2006-04-08T01:11:08Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I’d be curious to know if she was an Affirmative Action hire. Not trying to be inflammatory here, but what _if_ there were other, more qualified, applicants who were not answering the emergency call that day because they were passed over in order to fill a quota or something? I’m just asking… Well, **a-septic** will always find something to be a dick about. Ignore him. Being one that doesn’t look for a reason to paint you with the auto-racist brush, I can see what you’re getting at. If I may say, I don’t think it’s an issue. Affirmative action isn’t an apparent issue here. It’s incompetence. It doesn’t matter the race, it’s a matter of not doing the job entrusted her. If anything, I’d attack the gender before the race. (Though I won’t.) Women being supposedly more caring about children, than men. Anyone hear the 911 call from Valentine’s Day where the kid called 911 to report the dad killed mom, grandma and himself in front of the kids? The 911 operator was doing everything she could to keep the kid calm after seeing 3 violent deaths. That was a professional. None of that matters, least of all race. The child and operator are black. But I can see what you’re getting at with the job going to a less-qualified person based on race. It really isn’t much of an issue, IMO. This is Detroit. I think this issue is more about the situation in Detroit than anything racial. You’re not racist in this, and nobody should think so. But you have to know what the day to day life is in the city of Detroit to understand how this could have possibly happened. The problems in Detroit are so far beyond race, it’s not even an issue. In this case, Affirmative Action has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/70 "2006-04-08T01:20:21Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > The problems in Detroit are so far beyond race, it’s not even an issue. In this case, Affirmative Action has nothing to do with it. Thanks for your response. You’re right. I don’t live in Detroit, in fact I’ve never even been there. And I didn’t notice before I’d posted that this woman has 30 years experience. That tells me AA is not a likely factor here, but it also makes me wonder how _incompetence_ could possibly play any part in this case. 30 years on the job? And she screws up this badly? Has there been a rash of prank 9-1-1 calls in Detroit lately? That wouldn’t be any kind of excuse but it might be something of an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/71 "2006-04-08T01:24:29Z")
> [@mojave66](#): > > It’d be an awfully big stretch to have a crappy “affirmative action” hire in a city that’s 21% African-American, and that’s even assuming that there’d be 4 white job competitors for every African-American competitor (which is quite a stretch given the race & class divide). 😕 Are you saying Detroit is only 21% black? [http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-5.pdf](http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-5.pdf) (warning: pdf) As of 2000, the population of Detroit is 81-83% black. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/72 "2006-04-08T01:29:06Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > If this is true, more scorn to Detroit. In North Dakota if you make a 911 call from a cell phone, the emergency operators can trace it to a pretty samll area. As in , calling from a ditch in the middle of winter from rat’s-ass nowhere. > > If this technology isn’t available in the city of Detroit, it’s worse than I thought. Actually, Enhanced 911, [Phase II](http://www.fcc.gov/911/enhanced/) is the responsibility of the cell phone provider, not the PSAP. > [@FCC](#): > > Phase II requires wireless carriers to provide far more precise location information, within 50 to 300 meters in most cases. As to the rest of it, I don’t see anything that could possibly exonerate the dispatcher for failing to at least send the police for a welfare check. St. Urho Paramedic ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/73 "2006-04-08T01:32:55Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > _incompetence_ could possibly play any part in this case. 30 years on the job? That’s pretty much the point of the OP as I read it. There is no immediate dicipline, nor consideration of it. Sh’es going to keep her job. Period. Unless I’m wrong, that’s what the Pitting is all about. Well, what should have been a pitting, had the OP orginally put it here. But based on what happened, there was no way it was going to avoid the Pit. Can we all join together and tell **ivylass** that when she’s mad enough to start a thread on an asshat, it’s likely worthy of the Pit? Based on her even keel in life if she’s mad enought to start a thread, it’s Pitworthy. Unless she isn’t right. But in this case she is. Let the rage flow. Let it flow! ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/74 "2006-04-08T01:41:29Z")
> [@St. Urho](#): > > Actually, Enhanced 911, [Phase II](http://www.fcc.gov/911/enhanced/) is the responsibility of the cell phone provider, not the PSAP. Never let it be said that when I’m called on it I won’t admit it. Like the RU482 comment in another thread, I was melding 2 similar things that weren’t really related. I think was I was trying to do was mention that the lack of technology up here in the boonies somehow was obviously better than what was available in Detroit. Or trying to show how even an urban area that gets more respect than us couldn’t keep up with us. The cite is correct, though. It’s up to the cellular provider in that technology. And the providers up here have a different workload to deal with than Detroit. I’ll concede that. I will, however, still assume it was a land-line the kid called from. And if that was the case, cell tracking is a moot point. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/75 "2006-04-08T01:53:19Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Can we all join together and tell **ivylass** that when she’s mad enough to start a thread on an asshat, it’s likely worthy of the Pit? Based on her even keel in life if she’s mad enought to start a thread, it’s Pitworthy. Good rule of thumb: If someone dies because of someone else’s idiocity, it’s probably suitable for the Pit. **duffer** , I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that you’re not a huge Michael Moore fan. But you should give his documentaries a good watch. Lot’s of stuff about the decay of Detroit. Especially Roger and Me. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/76 "2006-04-08T01:55:57Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I’d be curious to know if she was an Affirmative Action hire. Not trying to be inflammatory here, but what if there were other, more qualified, applicants who were not answering the emergency call that day because they were passed over in order to fill a quota or something? I’m just asking… > [@duffer](#): > > You’re not racist in this, and nobody should think so. But you have to know what the day to day life is in the city of Detroit to understand how this could have possibly happened. > . > [@Stephe96](#): > > You’re right. I don’t live in Detroit, in fact I’ve never even been there. And I didn’t notice before I’d posted that this woman has 30 years experience. That tells me AA is not a likely factor here, but it also makes me wonder how incompetence could possibly play any part in this case. You people are such caricaturesof yourselves, sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/77 "2006-04-08T01:59:29Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Thanks for your response. You’re right. I don’t live in Detroit, in fact I’ve never even been there. And I didn’t notice before I’d posted that this woman has 30 years experience. That tells me AA is not a likely factor here, but it also makes me wonder how _incompetence_ could possibly play any part in this case. 30 years on the job? And she screws up this badly? Has there been a rash of prank 9-1-1 calls in Detroit lately? That wouldn’t be any kind of excuse but it might be something of an explanation. > [@Stephe96](#): > > Thanks for your response. You’re right. I don’t live in Detroit, in fact I’ve never even been there. And I didn’t notice before I’d posted that this woman has 30 years experience. That tells me AA is not a likely factor here, but it also makes me wonder how _incompetence_ could possibly play any part in this case. 30 years on the job? And she screws up this badly? Has there been a rash of prank 9-1-1 calls in Detroit lately? That wouldn’t be any kind of excuse but it might be something of an explanation. But you noticed she was black and the first thing into your mind that this **could** be a result of AA? So had she been a hire ten years ago, would your “gut” reaction of AA induced incompetence have more legs? A person screws up and based solely on the color of her skin, you question whether or not she got her job over more ‘qualified’ (white) applicants…nice. Had it been a white woman, would your first reaction be this was a result of a racist, not caring about black people? I mean we’ve had institutionalized racism, a lot longer than we’ve have AA. So I am correct in assuming that your **first** fair and balanced reaction would be call racism, whenever something goes wrong between people of different colors…yes? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/78 "2006-04-08T02:01:41Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > But you noticed she was black and the first thing into your mind that this **could** be a result of AA? So had she been a hire ten years ago, would your “gut” reaction of AA induced incompetence have more legs? > > A person screws up and based solely on the color of her skin, you question whether or not she got her job over more ‘qualified’ (white) applicants…nice. > > Had it been a white woman, would your first reaction be this was a result of a racist, not caring about black people? > > I mean we’ve had institutionalized racism, a lot longer than we’ve have AA. So I am correct in assuming that your **first** fair and balanced reaction would be call racism, whenever something goes wrong between people of different colors…yes? What’s wrong with assuming someone was hired because of AA? Do you think that’s something to be ashamed of? ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/79 "2006-04-08T02:02:32Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > There are acceptable and unacceptable mistakes. If she sent the responders to 325 Franklin Street instead of 325 Franklin Avenue that would be a mistake that might be acceptable, if it was the first one in a long service. Failing to send responders at all is not an acceptable mistake. I agree. I used to be a 911 operator, and there’s simply no excuse for this. We were trained to send services, even when in doubt, and followed a “better safe than sorry” policy. And, _ **it’s pure common sense** _. An operator who refuses to send help in a situation like this is an operator who has been at the job entirely too long. She should have heard the voice screaming in the back of her head, “BUT WHAT IF YOU’RE WRONG?! WHAT IF THERE’S A WOMAN LYING THERE DYING AND YOU DID NOTHING?!” There’s no excuse for keeping her. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749/80 "2006-04-08T02:04:44Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > You people are such caricaturesof yourselves, sometimes. Unless you’re blaming me for stupid shit done by people, you got nothing. If you have some sort of knowledge about me that I don’t know about, I beg you to give me a call to learn me of my evilness. Let the hate go. You’re a joke with what you’re attributing to me. You’re a joke, in fact, of attributing anything to me. Attack my politics, don’t attack me. Or attack me. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself. I’m here to help you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-911-operator-refuses-to-send-help/351749.md?page=5)