# Detroit is building a new Hockey Stadium? Who's buying their bonds? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 29, 2013, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804 "2013-07-29T11:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/1 "2013-07-29T11:23:35Z")
Good lord. They’re filing for bankruptcy, and at the same time have decided to build a new _444 million dollar_ [stadium](http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/26/news/economy/detroit-bankruptcy-arena/index.html). My first thought is “you can’t fix stupid” but then I’m wondering who is foolish enough to finance this thing? The article claims most of the cost will be borne by the Detoit taxpayers\* and the rest financed by bonds. We bought municipal bonds as an education investment (prior to having kids). But we were pretty cautious about which city we were willing to invest in. Even 2 decades ago I wouldn’t have touched Detroit bonds. The thought of buying a 30 year bond from them today is nothing short of laughable. So my question is: Who the heck would buy a 30-year Detroit municipal bond today? I admit I’m no investment wizard but I’d avoid those like the plague, if it were my money. Are these guaranteed in some way I’m not aware of? \*I’m sure an additional tax burden on their citizens is just what is needed here. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/2 "2013-07-29T11:49:04Z")
Probably because the Ilitches are among the few who are actually spending money trying to improve the city. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/3 "2013-07-29T13:58:13Z")
Once Detroit actually goes through bankruptcy, they will be debt free and their bonds should be good. Assuming Detroit can actually survive. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/4 "2013-07-29T14:09:38Z")
IMHO, the problem is not the bonds. It is the perennial question of why cities put vast amounts of money on the table to foster a single, for-profit and notably greedy and self-serving business… that might leave in a huff when their slightest whim is denied. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/5 "2013-07-29T14:16:29Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > It is the perennial question of why cities put vast amounts of money on the table to foster a single, for-profit and notably greedy and self-serving business… that might leave in a huff when their slightest whim is denied. Because they will end up like Detroit? 😉 Seriously though, isn’t the bonding being done by the state? Doesn’t affect the argument of it being a good investment or not, but it does kind of deflate the “bankrupt city spending millions on hockey” sound bite. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/6 "2013-07-29T14:32:58Z")
Though tangential to OP’s question, it is unfortunate how sports franchises enrich themselves at taxpayer expense. I think they get away with it because sports teams are seen as a sort of community service rather than as a business. [Here’s one example.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/06/26/125539/-George-W-Bush-enriched-himself-by-eminent-domain) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/7 "2013-07-29T14:53:29Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I think they get away with it because sports teams are seen as a sort of community service rather than as a business. Yeah, so are the hookers down on 4th and T, but no one thinks we should build them a $100M whorehouse. I guess they need a better logo. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/8 "2013-07-29T14:58:01Z")
But don’t you see? If you build it, they will come. Then all the problems will be solved! ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/9 "2013-07-29T15:11:16Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > But don’t you see? If you build it, they will come. Then all the problems will be solved! Yes! And all the people on the dole will have snazzy logowear and something to talk about amongst themselves, and something to watch on their big flatscreens - when it’s not blacked out. Which it will be, because only 2/3 of the $100 seats will be filled by ardent fans who drive in 50 miles to see “their” team play. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/10 "2013-07-29T15:16:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, so are the hookers down on 4th and T, but no one thinks we should build them a $100M whorehouse. > [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > But don’t you see? If you build it, they will come. I see what you did there. 🙂 sorry,mods… but somebody had to do it. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/11 "2013-07-29T15:26:46Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Yeah, so are the hookers down on 4th and T, but no one thinks we should build them a $100M whorehouse. Well, now I have a platform for my campaign. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/12 "2013-07-29T15:27:16Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Because they will end up like Detroit? 😉 > > Seriously though, isn’t the bonding being done by the state? Doesn’t affect the argument of it being a good investment or not, but it does kind of deflate the “bankrupt city spending millions on hockey” sound bite. This is correct. The “taxpayers” mentioned in the OP are not just Detroiters, but everyone in Michigan. > [@Amateur Barbarian](#): > > Yes! And all the people on the dole will have snazzy logowear and something to talk about amongst themselves, and something to watch on their big flatscreens - when it’s not blacked out. Which it will be, because only 2/3 of the $100 seats will be filled by ardent fans who drive in 50 miles to see “their” team play. Can we all agree that it’s better for Detroit if the Red Wings are located in the city rather than in the suburbs? Isn’t this true of most cities? The opposition to this project is lost on me. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/13 "2013-07-29T15:37:37Z")
Wow, it’s hilarious to me that Charlotte, arguably one of the cities the recent financial collapse had the least effect on, had almost exactly this same argument about its new sports arena. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/14 "2013-07-29T15:37:46Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Yes! And all the people on the dole will have snazzy logowear and something to talk about amongst themselves, and something to watch on their big flatscreens - when it’s not blacked out. Which it will be, because only 2/3 of the $100 seats will be filled by ardent fans who drive in 50 miles to see “their” team play. I’m not aware of the NHL having a blackout policy like the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/15 "2013-07-29T15:53:38Z")
> [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > Can we all agree that it’s better for Detroit if the Red Wings are located in the city rather than in the suburbs? Isn’t this true of most cities? The opposition to this project is lost on me. Perhaps you are unaware that the Detroit Redwings already have an arena in downtown Detroit, and there’s nothing wrong with it? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/16 "2013-07-29T16:03:34Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Well, now I have a platform for my campaign. Campaigning from the roof of a whorehouse… yeah, that could work. > [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Perhaps you are unaware that the Detroit Redwings already have an arena in downtown Detroit, and there’s nothing wrong with it? Other than it being in Detroit :). ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/17 "2013-07-29T16:10:28Z")
> [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > Can we all agree that it’s better for Detroit if the Red Wings are located in the city rather than in the suburbs? Isn’t this true of most cities? The opposition to this project is lost on me. Big Red Wings fan, I take it. It amazes me how much sports fanship can blind otherwise reasonable people to the 11-out-of-10 absurdity that is public-fund support of commercial, for-profit, self-serving businesses that happen to field a sports team you can go see in the publicly-funded venue for a mere week’s salary. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/18 "2013-07-29T16:10:49Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Perhaps you are unaware that the Detroit Redwings already have an arena in downtown Detroit, and there’s nothing wrong with it? Hmm. I was under the impression that the Red Wings would eventually vacate the city if a new stadium wasn’t built, but I just reread the link in the OP and it says they haven’t yet threatened to do so. Still, it would be incentive for them to stay for the long haul, and it’s projected to bring jobs/$$ to the city. I’d be happier if the state of Michigan were doing more for Detroit itself (infrastructure, education, debt), but it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/19 "2013-07-29T16:16:31Z")
So your solution to “the state doesnt support Detroit enough” is for the state to pay a zillionaire to solve a problem that doesn’t exist while it rapes the pension plans of police and firefighters because… as i hear it from the mouths of politicians, it’s the “only” responsible solution to out of control costs of running the city. Totally makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![JuliaSqueezer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/82dd89/32.png) [@JuliaSqueezer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JuliaSqueezer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804/20 "2013-07-29T16:37:52Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > So your solution to “the state doesnt support Detroit enough” is for the state to pay a zillionaire to solve a problem that doesn’t exist while it rapes the pension plans of police and firefighters because… as i hear it from the mouths of politicians, it’s the “only” responsible solution to out of control costs of running the city. > > Totally makes sense. Apparently, yes. And there you have a prime example of why Detroit is dashing headlong into being a lost cause and laughing stock. Paying millionaires to play games for our entertainment is a major priority. Building a separate gigantic arena for EACH sport is essential. Just ignore that city collapsing around you. We neeeeeed our sports! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/detroit-is-building-a-new-hockey-stadium-whos-buying-their-bonds/664804.md?page=2)