# Deus Ex Machina **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 13, 2007, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401 "2007-08-13T04:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401/1 "2007-08-13T04:00:37Z")
Please help me understand the \*exact \*derivation of Deus Ex Machina. From [Wikepedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina) "The Latin phrase “deus ex machina” has its origins in the conventions of Greek tragedy. It refers to situations in which a mechane (crane) was used to lower actors playing a god or gods onto the stage. " I find this unlikely for several reasons. First of all, a \*Latin \*phrase to describe \*Greek \*tragedy, oh really? Second, dis ancient theatre really employ devices like cranes to lower actors onto the stage? My impression is that Roman/ Greek theatres were open air affairs, no proscenium arch or wings to hide actors. My own understanding is that _ex machina_ actually means _outside the plot_. There were no “machines” that lowered actors onto the stage. Am I right? I’d hate to “correct” the wikipedia article if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401/2 "2007-08-13T04:05:48Z")
[Britannica](http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9030116/deus-ex-machina) agrees with the Wikipedia article. And [phrases.org](http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/deus-ex-machina.html) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401/3 "2007-08-13T04:11:22Z")
And let’s not forget [Merriam-Webster](http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/deus%20ex%20machina). Three sources is convincing enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401/4 "2007-08-13T04:16:49Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] First of all, a \*Latin \*phrase to describe \*Greek \*tragedy, oh really? [/quote] Not sure why you find this unlikely. The Romans were famous for adapting Greek culture, Greek theater being part of this. > [@](#): > > Second, dis ancient theatre really employ devices like cranes to lower actors onto the stage? My impression is that Roman/ Greek theatres were open air affairs, no proscenium arch or wings to hide actors. There was traditionally a structure behind the stage called a skene, which created a sort of backstage and also upon which the actors supported by cranes would play the various Gods. > [@](#): > > My own understanding is that _ex machina_ actually means _outside the plot_. There were no “machines” that lowered actors onto the stage. Check a dictionary. It doesn’t mean “outside” the plot but rather a plot development that seems contrived and “cheap” to resolve whatever the main conflict is. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401/5 "2007-08-13T04:29:33Z")
Some sources say the crane hoisted a statue of a god, rather the actor playing the god. The actor would speak the god’s lines from offstage. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401/6 "2007-08-13T15:03:19Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] It doesn’t mean “outside” the plot but rather a plot development that seems contrived and “cheap” to resolve whatever the main conflict is. [/QUOTE] Yeah. Perfect example: _Medea_. You can read it for yourself [here.](http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/e/euripides/medea/) She kills her children to punish Jason, their father. Then when he finds out about it, and would probably kill her if he could get his hands on her, suddenly she appears up above him in the Sungod’s Chariot (she’s the granddaughter of the Sungod, y’see, and apparently he turns up to rescue her before her irate husband can kill her for killing their children) and goes “nyah nyah” at him, and then poof! It’s The End. By today’s standards of “playing fair with the audience”, having a supernatural chariot magically appear and whisk your protagonist away because you can’t figure out how to end your story is “cheating”. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401/7 "2007-08-13T16:50:46Z")
> [@My Favorite Modern Christmas Movie](#): > > “To Olive, From Deus Ex Machina.” Contents of the box: a file allowing Olive to escape an otherwise impossible lockup. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401/8 "2007-08-13T21:22:48Z")
Here’s the spot in Aristotle’s _Poetics_ where he mentions the device: [section 1454](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0056;query=section%3D%2316;layout=;loc=1454a) (link to English). > [@](#): > > _phaneron oun hoti kai tas luseis tôn muthôn ex autou dei tou muthou sumbainein,_ > Clearly therefore the “denouement” of each play should also be the result of the plot itself > > _kai mê hôsper en têi Mêdeiai apo mêchanês kai en têi Iliadi ta peri ton apoploun._ > and not produced mechanically as in the Medea and the incident of the embarkation in the Iliad. > > \*alla mêchanêi chrêsteon epi ta exô tou dramatos, \* > The “god in the car” should only be used to explain what lies outside the play, > > _ê hosa pro tou gegonen ha ouch hoion te anthrôpon eidenai,_ > either what happened earlier and is therefore beyond human knowledge, > > _ê hosa husteron, ha deitai proagoreuseôs kai angelias_ > or what happens later and needs to be foretold in a proclamation. ---
**Author:** ![Wonderwall6129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Wonderwall6129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wonderwall6129)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401/9 "2007-08-15T20:41:29Z")
I read somewhere (I completely forget where, sorry) that it means “God out of the machine” and basically means that, in a play, a means of rescuing the protagonist from danger appears from seemingly nowhere and for seemingly no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deus-ex-machina/415401/10 "2007-08-15T20:48:04Z")
A good example is the denouement of Roger Zelazny’s first novel, _This Immortal_. The ending is pure deus ex machina, yet justifiable because the entire book is a riff on Greek mythology and history. The mysterious working of fate is the book’s theme.