# Dex, we're very unclear **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855 "2006-02-16T19:50:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/41 "2006-02-17T01:55:54Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > If you really don’t want me to jump in with a factual correction in CS when I spot someone making a series of incorrect factual assumptions on a complicated subject on which I know some things, then as I say, that’s fine with me, if just a little sad. Oh, come off it. No one is saying you cannot correct another poster. No one. What we _are_ saying is that when you do, there’s NO need for you to be an prick about it. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/42 "2006-02-17T01:56:32Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] > [@Q.E.D.](#): > > I would like to hear Dex defend his defense of ignorance. While thanking you for your “strong suggest[ion]”, I prefer to stick around. If what you write above is truly Dex’s distinction (replete with legal language), then I will just think less of him for it, and will continue to post about it until I get a response that makes a shred of sense to me. > If you really don’t want me to jump in with a factual correction in CS when I spot someone making a series of incorrect factual assumptions on a complicated subject on which I know some things, then as I say, that’s fine with me, if just a little sad. But you didn’t make a factual correction at all. You just said, “you’re wrong.” That’s not correcting someone, and you said it in a way that was insulting. The cure for ignorance is information, and if you don’t offer any, people who call you on it you are not defending ignorance. It’s okay to be sharp with someone, but the idea is to offer something in addition to that. Otherwisem there is no point but the insult, and CS is not the forum for trading insults. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/43 "2006-02-17T02:01:50Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > Find me a word or phrase or sentence or post I wrote that I’m forbidden or officially discouraged from saying again, or STFU, please. You know, we could provide this to you, but I think it’s pretty clear that you’re not ready to learn yet, so why bother? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/44 "2006-02-17T02:06:02Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > I have zero problem with characterizations of my first or subsequent posts as sounding snooty or high-hat or condescending or unfriendly or almost every thing that they’ve been labeled here. You’re perfectly right. My tone was meant to be sternly admonishing. > > But there’s a very sharp distinction, to my mind and in my judgment, between any of those terms and behaving like a jerk. I am unaware that sounding friendly or pleasant or affable or positive or helpful or obsequious or purple is anything like a requirement of being able to post here without official mod admonishment. The moment I find out it is will be the moment I lose interest entirely in posting here again. > > If Dex had written. “PPR, you’re being very unpleasant,” I would have agreed with him. I meant to be unpleasant. I would hope I’m not so incompentent a writer as to have my tone of voice mistaken for a different tone. > > Probably if Dex had simply written “Cut it out, both of you,” I would still be annoyed in the same way I am right now, but not so annoyed as to have posted a Pit thread. By singling me out for special obnoxiousness, without finding a specific personal insult in the thread, Dex was putting me on notice that future posts of a vaguely uppity nature will get me into similar trouble. I do not appreciate such a nebulous threat, and am still seeking clarification. Anyone care to isolate one word, phrase, sentence (or a whole post) from my contributions to that thread that may not be written in CS again without a official Mod warning? **Clothahump**? Is that you? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/45 "2006-02-17T02:19:17Z")
For a supposed poet you have real reading comprehension problems. No personal insults in Cafe Society. That’s the rule. It’s not hard. Talk about willful ignorance! ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/46 "2006-02-17T02:58:47Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > Find me a word or phrase or sentence or post I wrote that I’m forbidden or officially discouraged from saying again, or STFU, please. > > (…) > > In my view, you are simply encouraging ignorance when you allow a poster as pig-ignorant as Biffy to expound on a subject on which he knows very little, and to censure a poster for pointing out, **however unkindly** , his ignorance. If that’s the way you want to go, I certainly cant stop you, but I find it rather sad that the SD is forming a protective cirlce around ignorance here. Bolding mine. “However unkindly”? Dude, that “unkindliness” is the whole _point_ of the (rather mild) smackdown you received. Unwarranted rudeness such as you displayed is not allowed in CS. We’re supposed to be polite and respectful in that forum. If you object to something someone says and feel you _must_ act like you have a stick up your ass instead of just offering a correction or link, there are other fora you might find preferable. Hey, like this one. Christ, why is this so fucking hard for you to understand? Tone matters. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/47 "2006-02-17T02:59:28Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > And one could interpret “fuck you with a rubber hose” as being a gentle offer for some sweet loving, but if you have to strain that hard to find an interpretation that suits your purposes, you’re probably doing something wrong in your interpretation. I didn’t have to strain too hard. Do you really think I’m the only one here who interprets “you’re not ready to learn” in the manner in which you said it as “you’re being willfully ignorant”? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/48 "2006-02-17T03:03:25Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Do you really think I’m the only one here who interprets “you’re not ready to learn” in the manner in which you said it as “you’re being willfully ignorant”? For the record, no, you are not. I did, as well. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/49 "2006-02-17T03:08:11Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Christ, why is this so fucking hard for you to understand? Tone matters. But but but… the tone for the whole response isn’t inherent in one sentence. Find me one sentence which conveys the entire tone of the whole piece or STFU. I want a holographic hermetic representation of the overall effect of all my words as evinced by a handfull of them in isolation, or I’ll whine more. Ten dollar words will be okay, but twelve dollar words are right out. I do accept checks. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/50 "2006-02-17T03:23:39Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > Dex, we’re very unclear As no one else has pointed this out, “we” are not very unclear about what Dex said. “You” maybe very unclear, but I the rest of “us” are very clear about what he said. What is more, “we” agree with him. If you are still having trouble with basic comprehension we could try and persuade Dex to rewrite his post in iambic pentameter for you. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/51 "2006-02-17T04:13:47Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > You know, we could provide this to you, but I think it’s pretty clear that you’re not ready to learn yet, so why bother? Oh, _snap_! I love seeing Daniel get sarcastic. Seriously, PRR, if I wanted insults I’d go to the Pit. There are rules here at the SDMB, and one of them is no insults in CS, which I and many other people happen to value really highly. (Both the rule and the forum). Matter of fact, I just posted a thread about boxing. One of the things I said was I think it’s a silly sport, but I’d like to be shown the light. People like you could have come in and said, “There is so much more but you’re not ready to learn obviously.” But no, plenty of people weighed in and I’ve learned a great deal of interesting things. I’ve looked up the history of boxing. I plan to read some books, and even watch some movies about it. I will learn more this way. If someone had slapped me down right away, I might have thought “not only is boxing silly, but its fans are also assholes. Forget this.” And one more thing. I was pretty shocked at the admin meltdown in ATMB, even though I haven’t posted in any of the threads about it. But upon reading this thread I wonder if they’re not correct. You got a perfectly legitimate smackdown. You’ve been shown to have broken the rules. And yet you still continue to protest. Maybe they do have a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/52 "2006-02-17T04:51:59Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > If someone had slapped me down right away, I might have thought “not only is boxing silly, but its fans are also assholes. Forget this.” This thread reminds me of the MST3K short “Home Economics.” Narrator: Dad made some comment about he sure had earned _his_ diploma. Crow: Dad just doesn’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/53 "2006-02-17T08:38:17Z")
**PRR** : as someone who has frequent (OK, constant) difficulty controlling my snark in CS–as, therefore, someone who’s given it a great deal of thought–I will tell you that your post struck me as a bit red-flaggy even before CKDH entered the thread. The rule of thumb I try to keep in mind is that you may release a little tongue of flame if it is aimed directly at the art or artist under discussion, but not if it is directed at your fellow participants in the discussion. You may frequently find yourself to be the smartest person in the room, **PRR** , but–_cold light of day moment coming up here_–that will not always be true,. Especially here. Thus, if you want your views to be treated with respect by your betters, when you find yourself among your betters, then you’d better remember this when you find yourself convinced that you’re dealing with your lessers. Think of it as _noblesse oblige_, if that helps. In any case, you seem to be suggesting that sarcasm and superciliousness would improve Cafe Society as a place to discuss matters of the Arts. Although there are moments when I, too, find myself unable to withstand the temptation to improve my personal momentary experience in CS by snapping back at someone who has annoyed me, even I would not suggest that such behavior is an improvement to the overall experience that is CS. Keep in mind too that when, as in this thread, you stray from the safe zone of discussing a Doper’s ideas to discussing the motivation or agenda that you hypothesize to be behind those ideas, you are straying into a danger zone. You should do this advisedly, and only in the spirit of inquiry and mutual understanding. Not in the pompous and insulting tone of the posts that CKDH rightfully remarked upon. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/54 "2006-02-17T09:01:42Z")
I’m on a different time zone from the States, so I’m just seeing this. I probably don’t need to comment; lots of people have said it for me. The rule in Cafe Society is that we discuss the work of art/entertainment, we do not discuss the shortcomings of other posters. Note the difference between: a. “Your statement is factually incorrect, Charlotte Bronte wrote _Jane Eyre_, not Jane Austen.” (acceptable) b. “You must have flunked English lit, doofus, 'cause it was Charlotte Bronte, not Jane Austen who wrote _Jane Eyre._.” (unacceptable) Correcting factual errors is fine. Discussing different tastes is fine. Criticizing another poster for her taste is NOT fine. Psycholanlyzing another poster, or making deductions about his lack of education is NOT fine. **pseudotriton** , you’re asking for a specific word(s) that were unacceptable. It’s not that simple: it’s not like you can’t say “piece of shit” in Cafe Society. You certainly can. You can say that a certain poem is a piece of shit, but you can’t say that another poster is a piece of shit. It’s all context. On the Official vs Unofficial – sometimes, I think that a mild comment from a moderator is sufficient to break up a fist-fight (say.) I don’t bother to record that as an Official Offense, because I don’t think it’s going to be a repeated problem. And also because I think both parties were contributing. The other Mods probably think I’m too much of a wuss on this. Basically, when we see patterns or repetitions of unacceptable behavior, we take stronger action than we do for the occasional fuck-up that everyone makes. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/55 "2006-02-17T09:05:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, and Giraffe? Have you read the thread in question? If so, please find me the distinction between the official Warning that, according to you, I wasn’t given, and this: > > “pseudotriton and Biffy: this is official Moderator Order to cease and desist. Personal insults are NOT permitted in Cafe Society. Pseudo, it looks like you started it”, > > which Dex wrote, and which I took exception to. Thank you for explaining this very fine distinction in advance. Yes, I read the thread in question. I think you misread the tone of my statement – I recognized that there was some room for confusion about whether or not you were Warned, so I checked for you. We keep records of such things. You weren’t Warned. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/56 "2006-02-17T09:07:08Z")
Shit, simul-post with **Dex**. I’m going to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/57 "2006-02-17T15:04:51Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Shit, simul-post with **Dex**. I’m going to bed. With **Dex**? Kinky… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/58 "2006-02-17T15:26:05Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > As no one else has pointed this out, “we” are not very unclear about what Dex said. “You” maybe very unclear, but I the rest of “us” are very clear about what he said. Perhaps **prr** thinks he’s royalty. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/59 "2006-02-17T16:01:40Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > As no one else has pointed this out, “we” are not very unclear about what Dex said. “You” maybe very unclear, but I the rest of “us” are very clear about what he said. What is more, “we” agree with him. If you are still having trouble with basic comprehension we could try and persuade Dex to rewrite his post in iambic pentameter for you. This quote came to mind. > [@Mark Twain](#): > > Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial “we”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855/60 "2006-02-17T16:18:51Z")
> [@](#): > > a. “Your statement is factually incorrect, Charlotte Bronte wrote Jane Eyre, not Jane Austen.” Heck. I didn’t even think anyone still believed that Charlotte Bronte actually wrote Jane Austen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dex-were-very-unclear/344855.md?page=4)