# Dhalgren vs. Infinite Jest vs. Gravity's Rainbow **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 23, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047 "2014-12-23T19:10:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![thanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@thanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thanatic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/21 "2015-07-16T04:24:37Z")
what book is the most abstract of the 3 ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/22 "2015-07-16T04:34:10Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Can’t speak for the others mentioned here, but _Gravity’s Rainbow_ is by far the most difficult novel I’ve ever read. I concur. “Only” IIRC, 700-something pages long, but more difficult than anything else I’ve ever read. There is a companion “encyclopedia” website which helped. > [@thanatic](#): > > so where does Delaney, author of Dhalgren rank among say James Joyce in terms of influence, complex writing etc. Joyce is, well, not a household name, but well known. Delaney not so much. Critics also don’t like to lower themselves to such “frivolities” like science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![thanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@thanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thanatic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/23 "2015-07-16T04:54:52Z")
isn’t dhalgren considered the greatest science fiction book of all time in terms of general consensus or nah? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/24 "2015-07-16T05:07:39Z")
> [@thanatic](#): > > is sam delaney on james joyce level No. Not at all. Not even close. And I like Delaney. Same with Wallace and Pynchon, though my love of Pynchon is fading. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/25 "2015-07-16T05:23:49Z")
_Gravity’s Rainbow_ \> _Infinite Jest_ \>\> _Dalgren_. I’d prefer to reread _Catch-22_ to any of them, though. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/26 "2015-07-16T10:22:01Z")
> [@thanatic](#): > > what book is the most abstract of the 3 Some impressive perseverance with this thread, thanatic - just what you need to tackle these literary monsters. IJ is my favourite out of those three, but Pynchon is by miles the hardest to read, IME. Not all his stuff, but his longer books are challenging - you’ve got a dense, refractory prose style that’s delivering a very complex narrative. Stuff like IJ, or Ulysses, can be hard to read but they’re telling quite simple stories. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/27 "2015-07-16T12:54:52Z")
> [@thanatic](#): > > isn’t dhalgren considered the greatest science fiction book of all time in terms of general consensus or nah? Theodore Sturgeon thought so, but no. It’s respected, but I doubt it would be among the top ten if people voted on the best book in the field (and many excellent books have come out since it did). ---
**Author:** ![thanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@thanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thanatic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/28 "2015-07-16T18:16:11Z")
for those who have read all 3 or 2 of them what was the hardest read? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/29 "2015-07-16T20:24:31Z")
I have read Gravity’s Rainbow and Sotweed Factor, and am more than 1/2 through Dhlargen. If I were to rank them by hardest to read : Dhalgren (so far), Sotweed, Gravity’s Rainbow (hardest) most enjoyable (to me) Dhlagren (so far), Gravity’s Rainbow, Sotweed I honestly don’t see Dhlagren or Sotweed as that hard to read. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/30 "2015-07-16T20:31:10Z")
My 17 year old son, who’s a very fast reader, seemed to take forever to finish Infinite Jest. I saw the number of pages and size of the type. No way could I get through it, even doing my usual skimming. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/31 "2015-07-16T20:32:26Z")
Just want to say that I’m currently 200 pages into **The Sot-weed Factor** and loving it. How it is getting compared to **Gravity’s Rainbow** I cannot comprehend because, although very intellectual and sometimes drifting into the depths of Maryland’s history, it is not at all difficult to follow. Barth manages to keep the inane details curiously entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![RadioWave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/91b2a8/32.png) [@RadioWave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioWave)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/32 "2015-07-16T20:56:22Z")
Having read Gravity’s Rainbow and Infinite Jest, I would say the former is a much harder book to understand. Jest is similar to War and Peace in that it has a lot of words but it’s actually a pretty easy read from start to finish. You may not pick up on all the little details the first time through but you won’t be banging your head against a wall either. Pynchon is one of those books where you’ll have to stop every ten pages and try to figure out who’s doing what and why it’s relevant to the overall themes. ---
**Author:** ![thanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@thanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thanatic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/33 "2015-07-17T02:59:29Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > I have read Gravity’s Rainbow and Sotweed Factor, and am more than 1/2 through Dhlargen. > > If I were to rank them by hardest to read : > > Dhalgren (so far), Sotweed, Gravity’s Rainbow (hardest) > > most enjoyable (to me) > > Dhlagren (so far), Gravity’s Rainbow, Sotweed > > I honestly don’t see Dhlagren or Sotweed as that hard to read. so in your experience Gravity was harder to reed than Dhalgren? ---
**Author:** ![thanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@thanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thanatic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/34 "2015-07-22T01:25:33Z")
so you guys dont see him on the level of James Joyce? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/35 "2015-07-22T16:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s complexity, and there’s readability. Different things. > > That was just the obvious fact of the day. For the personal anecdotal experience: > > I absolutely loved Gravity’s Rainbow, and didn’t find it difficult at all, but I did read it many years ago before the internet reduced my attention span to the length of a YouTube video. I couldn’t get past page one of Infinite Jest. Don’t know anything about Dhalgren. God, what _is_ it with that? When I was a teenager I would pick up a book and read the hell out of it until it was done. Now I pick up my phone every five minutes to see if anything happened. OP, by now you could have read all three books and told us what you thought about them. Try that. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/36 "2015-07-22T18:37:19Z")
Someone once said GR should be read as a 700-page poem. Certainly the first couple of pages really sing. I’ve read GR an embarrassing number of times, north of seven. I lost count. I either pick it up when I’m having a breakdown or have one while reading it. Hard to tell. I was also a virgin the first time, and boy was I fucked up for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/37 "2015-07-22T20:22:48Z")
> [@thanatic](#): > > so in your experience Gravity was harder to reed than Dhalgren? Yes, for me. It’s hard to exactly quantify why I found it harder. It’s not a matter of vocabulary (i.e. one doesn’t have “harder” words in it), but more likely I started having trouble keeping track of characters and their stories. The “narrative thread” (if that’s even a term that makes sense to you) is easier to follow in Dhlagren. You can put it down and come back a week later and not have too much trouble sinking back in. With GR, I found it almost essential to read in large chunks at a time and to not let too much time pass between reading. Maybe TV did rot my brain after all. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/38 "2015-07-22T20:23:52Z")
Also, if I read about one more person “sucking their teeth” in Dhlagren I might lose it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/39 "2015-07-23T22:27:26Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > …I might lose it. A case of the howling fantods, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![thanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@thanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thanatic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047/40 "2015-12-12T07:42:44Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Also, if I read about one more person “sucking their teeth” in Dhlagren I might lose it. Dhalgren is often considered to be Sci Fi’s greatest literary novel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dhalgren-vs-infinite-jest-vs-gravitys-rainbow/708047.md?page=1)