# Dharun Ravi gets.... 30 DAYS? Oh. Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639 "2012-05-21T18:43:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/1 "2012-05-21T18:43:48Z")
Everyone has their idea of justice. Mine might not have been 10 years. But ferfuxsake. 30 days in jail for what he did that night to his late roommate, Tyler Clementi ?? This falls so far to the side of " oh, boys will be boys, he’s such a good kid most of the time " as to make one’s gorge rise. [He did something terrible and has skated away for it.](http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/21/justice/new-jersey-rutgers-sentencing/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) No deportation. For shame, for shame. For shame. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/2 "2012-05-21T18:48:23Z")
Yeah, that’s a bit out of line. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/3 "2012-05-21T18:55:04Z")
If one roommate tapes another roommate having sex, and causes a huge embarrassment to the guy, and that’s the end of it - I presume there would be no calls for a long jail sentence. But if the roommate then commits suicide, that changes the desired punishment in some people’s eyes. Why? I mean, people commit suicide for all kinds of reasons. If someone commits suicide because his girlfriend left him, should the girlfriend be imprisoned? And if you say that’s different because what Ravi did was illegal by itself, fine - change my above example to “if someone commits suicide because he talked to a girl in the bar, said something inappropriate and the girl slapped him - should the girl be imprisoned?”. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/4 "2012-05-21T18:57:12Z")
He was convicted of a hate crime. Apparently - at least to this judge - it wasn’t so hateful. In a bizarrely connected story, [A sobering study on people wrongfully convicted who have been exonerated.](http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/21/more-than-2000-wrongfully-convicted-people-exonerated-in-23-years-researchers-say/?hpt=hp_t2) ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/5 "2012-05-21T19:09:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If one roommate tapes another roommate having sex, and causes a huge embarrassment to the guy, and that’s the end of it - I presume there would be no calls for a long jail sentence. But if the roommate then commits suicide, that changes the desired punishment in some people’s eyes. Why? > > I mean, people commit suicide for all kinds of reasons. If someone commits suicide because his girlfriend left him, should the girlfriend be imprisoned? > > And if you say that’s different because what Ravi did was illegal by itself, fine - change my above example to “if someone commits suicide because he talked to a girl in the bar, said something inappropriate and the girl slapped him - should the girl be imprisoned?”. Because different circumstances change the crime. If I’m throwing rocks from an overpass and hit a car but nothing substancial comes of it, I’ll probably get charged with reckless endangerment, destruction of property, etc. If I throw a rock and the car runs into a tree killing someone, then it’s a whole new crime. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/6 "2012-05-21T19:11:09Z")
Who was the Judge? Roy Snyder. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/7 "2012-05-21T19:11:58Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Because different circumstances change the crime. If I’m throwing rocks from an overpass and hit a car but nothing substancial comes of it, I’ll probably get charged with reckless endangerment, destruction of property, etc. If I throw a rock and the car runs into a tree killing someone, then it’s a whole new crime. But the circumstances of the “crime” are exactly the same. Roommate tapes another roommate having sex, the other roommate is hugely embarrassed. Exactly how does the suicide of the roommate _three days later_ change the circumstances of the “crime” retroactively? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/8 "2012-05-21T19:13:15Z")
A number of gay rights activitists did come out in support of probation, including Dan Savage. > [@](#): > > "Ravi may have been the last person who made [Tyler Clementi] feel unsafe and abused and worthless, but he couldn’t have been the first. > > The rush to pin all the responsibility on Ravi and then wash our hands and walk away means we’re not going to learn the lessons of these kids," From [here](http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/05/21/Gay-rights-backers-Ravi-merits-probation/UPI-68551337585400/) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/9 "2012-05-21T19:14:15Z")
I think Ravi was a dick but honestly, I don’t think he deserved much if any prison for this. In a lot of States other than New Jersey what he did wouldn’t even be a crime, and to be honest I think the State really was overzealous in the hate crime angle and I think the judge felt the same way. I don’t think Ravi was some gay hating monster, but just a teenager with immature opinions. Anyway, I know what he did **was** a crime in New Jersey and he was duly convicted by a jury, but that being said our system has some checks for reasonability in many cases, and I think the judge provided that here. Ravi deserved a criminal conviction and some punishment, but not any serious jail time. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/10 "2012-05-21T19:17:10Z")
what would an additional 9.5 years locked up accomplish? The U.S. has to stop equating length of prison sentence to our feelings about how bad the crime was. Bad crime does not necessarily mean long sentence. Violent dangerous people who might re-offend should be locked up to keep the rest of us safe. This Ravi guy isn’t going to do anything like this again, why spend limited resources keeping him out of society? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/11 "2012-05-21T19:24:04Z")
Witness tampering is a federal crime. I think covertly filming individuals in private is pretty reprehensible. Possible exceptions for criminal investigations or whistleblowing purposes, but that’s quite obviously not the case here. Edit: Dan Savage says 30 days is too lenient [as well](http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/05/21/dharun-ravi-sentenced-to-30-days). ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/12 "2012-05-21T19:27:56Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Because different circumstances change the crime. If I’m throwing rocks from an overpass and hit a car but nothing substancial comes of it, I’ll probably get charged with reckless endangerment, destruction of property, etc. If I throw a rock and the car runs into a tree killing someone, then it’s a whole new crime. Yeah, outcome-based charges that the accused had no way of controlling have always been factors in criminal cases. We distinguish between _murder_ and _attempted murder_ and _assault_ when the accused struck someone, even based entirely on whether the victim died or was severely injured, never mind that that outcome wasn’t under the control of the accused (“I didn’t know he would die when I hit him” doesn’t offer much defense, and conversely, if the victim survives being shot multiple times, the charge is usually not murder, even though the victim “should have” died.) ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/13 "2012-05-21T19:29:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > But the circumstances of the “crime” are exactly the same. Roommate tapes another roommate having sex, the other roommate is hugely embarrassed. > > Exactly how does the suicide of the roommate _three days later_ change the circumstances of the “crime” retroactively? Eh. Two men shoot people…three days later, one victim dies. Are the men charged differently? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/14 "2012-05-21T19:29:59Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Yeah, outcome-based charges that the accused had no way of controlling have always been factors in criminal cases. We distinguish between _murder_ and _attempted murder_ and _assault_ when the accused struck someone, even based entirely on whether the victim died or was severely injured, never mind that that outcome wasn’t under the control of the accused (“I didn’t know he would die when I hit him” doesn’t offer much defense, and conversely, if the victim survives being shot multiple times, the charge is usually not murder, even though the victim “should have” died.) But in those cases the outcome is not under the victim’s control either. In Ravi’s case, the outcome was under full victim’s control. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/15 "2012-05-21T19:30:59Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Eh. Two men shoot people…three days later, one victim dies. Are the men charged differently? But in those cases the outcome is not under the victim’s control either. In Ravi’s case, the outcome was under full victim’s control. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/16 "2012-05-21T19:35:05Z")
Yes **Sailboat** , and I can shoot you today and if you die 50 years from now from the same injury I can later be prosecuted by murder. (This just happened to a guy who shot a police officer in the late 60s/early 70s, was convicted of the shooting and spent most of his life in jail for various other offenses. A few years back the police officer died, the medical examiner indicated his cause of death was homicide and was directly tied to the injury he received while on duty, the guy was convicted of the murder and sent back to prison for the rest of his life–in some countries though the doctrine is if you survive a year+ without dying from your wound, your assailant cannot be charged with the death.) But anyway, a punch killing someone being murder versus a shooting just injuring someone are still about things that can be directly linked. If I punch you and your head breaks open because you have an “eggshell skull” that’s murder because your death is directly linked to my physical action. But if I spit on your face and you get **really** mad and go home fuming about it, then three days later you die of a heart attack, it is much less likely that I’ll be charged with murder. Or, if I take a naked picture of you and post it around work, and you kill yourself in your office that same day, that’s probably going to be looked at much different than if you had a reasonable “cooling off period” in between my act and your suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/17 "2012-05-21T19:39:02Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > This Ravi guy isn’t going to do anything like this again, why spend limited resources keeping him out of society? [Yeah, cause boys will be boys and it’s like a dog. They should be allowed that one-bite rule. Fuck over one kid, no harm no foul. Fuck over two, then…what- we have a problem?](http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/05/10/mitt_romney_hassled_gay_classmate_over_dyed_hair.html). Then again, his best defense is that he’s a victim, a poor innocent victim [of the culture that produced him](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377_of_the_Indian_Penal_Code) and he really should never have been convicted at all. Please. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/18 "2012-05-21T19:40:47Z")
> [@](#): > > His mother, Sabitha Ravi, cried as she related the stress and pain her son has experienced since Clementi’s death. “He has been living in hell for the past 20 months,” she said. Look lady, at least YOUR son is still living. Your son is going through what his victim suffered for 20 years and what your son helped bring to horrible conclusion. You get no sympathy from me. Addressing the OP: It’s more than 30 days jail time, there is also community service working with victims of “bias crimes”. (Is that the same as hate crime?) They don’t say how long this service is, so it’s hard to judge, but if its for the entire 3 years of probation, then yeah, I think it’s just. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/19 "2012-05-21T19:42:34Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > [Yeah, cause boys will be boys and it’s like a dog. They should be allowed that one-bite rule. Fuck over one kid, no harm no foul. Fuck over two, then…what- we have a problem?](http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/05/10/mitt_romney_hassled_gay_classmate_over_dyed_hair.html). > > Then again, his best defense is that he’s a victim, a poor innocent victim [of the culture that produced him](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377_of_the_Indian_Penal_Code) and he really should never have been convicted at all. > > Please. :rolleyes: What the fuck are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639/20 "2012-05-21T19:46:42Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > [Yeah, cause boys will be boys and it’s like a dog. They should be allowed that one-bite rule. Fuck over one kid, no harm no foul. Fuck over two, then…what- we have a problem?](http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/05/10/mitt_romney_hassled_gay_classmate_over_dyed_hair.html). > > Then again, his best defense is that he’s a victim, a poor innocent victim [of the culture that produced him](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377_of_the_Indian_Penal_Code) and he really should never have been convicted at all. > > Please. :rolleyes: For the record, I think he did a reprehensible act. I have no problem with the conviction or a 30 day jail sentence. My question is only about a long prison sentence. We have to find a way to express our outrage unconnected to “years locked up.” He’s not a threat to society, don’t lock him up for a decade. Find another way to ruin his life if you must. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dharun-ravi-gets-30-days-oh-really/622639.md?page=2)