# DIA says Iran used INC to get US in Iraq? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481 "2004-05-22T04:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/41 "2004-05-22T22:56:25Z")
It could be that the FBI is hitting back on the CIA, this time not sitting on the info they have. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/42 "2004-05-23T00:49:07Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Apparently, it was executed under Iraqi warrants from an Iraqi judge. > It was executed by Iraqi police, under Samir Shakir Mahmud al-Sumaydi’i, [Iraq’s new interior minister]([http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/04/mil-040409-rferl01.htm](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/04/mil-040409-rferl01.htm) > [http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:Iro0froszTIJ:www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/04/mil-040409-rferl01.htm+“al-Sumaydi”&hl=en](http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:Iro0froszTIJ:www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/04/mil-040409-rferl01.htm+%22al-Sumaydi%22&hl=en)). AFAICT, despite Chalabi protests, Sumeidi’s not a Baathist. He’s been described as “[a leading cleric](http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:pGdyAS8jUNoJ:archives.newyorkish.net/072803/072803.htm+Samir+Shakir+Mahmoud&hl=en).” Don’t know how accurate that is. And [Sunni, writer from Haditha involved in opposition to Saddam Hussein](http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:p6Qh65i4pdYJ:www.al-bab.com/arab/countries/iraq/who.htm+Samir+Shakir+Mahmoud&hl=en) > There’re numerous examples like this one where Sumaydi has publicly supported Coalition actions. Another strange juxtaposition. Iraqi police under the Interior Ministry raid the INC. Now, Deputy Interior Minister gets bombed. I’m not saying… I’m just saying 'sall. I"m sure that there’re any number of people who’d decide to do such a thing. [http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/22/iraq.main/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/22/iraq.main/index.html) A suicide car bomb exploded Saturday morning outside the Baghdad home of Iraq’s deputy interior minister, killing six Iraqis and wounding at least 10 others – including the minister and his wife – an Iraqi police official said. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/43 "2004-05-23T01:00:21Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > But notably, US military backed up the raid. Ostensibly, there were concerns about Chalabi’s militia so the US military were called in. Erm, isn’t this the militia that we largely flew in from America? (trying to get my facts straight - I do know that we were transporting Chalabi’s organization-in-exile back, and I have heard reports that select “illegal militias”, including and specifically Chalabi’s, were flown in by America. > [@](#): > > Reportedly, US military didn’t enter Chalabi’s place. However, plain-clothed Americans _are_ reported to’ve entered. Chalabi says that they identified themseves as CIA and FBI agents. The FBI denied involvement Makes sense. As I understand it, they wouldn’t have any jurisdiction, even if they did need access to some of the files that may or may not have been inside. > [@](#): > > and the CIA said that it didn’t have any agents present. heh, the CIA would deny having agents present at Langley. > [@](#): > > Given the number of private military contractors and subcontractors in the area, there’s plenty of deniability to go around, though. Yea, I bet the CIA is having a f\*ing field day operating in controlled land with so many contractors around. By the way, **SimonX** , you’re doing an exceptional (even for you) job documenting this thread. Hats off, I’m interested in following this as far as it goes. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/44 "2004-05-23T08:25:27Z")
> [@borax](#): > > But for now, all we have is an “intelligence source” and an incredibly ironic storyline that seems to piece recent discoveries together. The only part that is dependent upon “an intelligence source” is the DIA’s conclusions about Iran “manipulating” the US “into getting rid of Saddam Hussein.” Assume, ftsoa, (or for whatever other reason you should choose), that as **luci** helpfully suggested, Iran’s actions had absolutely zero impact on US decisions. There’re still the issues of the dissemination of classified national security intelligence by a “senior” official(s) to someone known to have extensive ties to Iran and Iran’s intelligence service. The [Bush Admin](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5016031/site/newsweek/) characterized the info as the kind that could “ **get people killed**.” Most likely, (a member or), members of the Bush Admin are the _only_ available suspects. One of them allowed life-and-death classified national security info to be transferred to the INC and thus to the Iranians. This is a very serious crime. (Despite the fact that Perle was previously caught disclosing classified national security secrets to agents of a foreign government and has still been allowed acces to classified info by this Admin.) Mr. Aras Karim is a Kurdish Iraqi who converted to Shiism after the the ayatollah Komeyni seized power. Mr. Aras Habib went to Iran and [joined the **Pasdaran**](http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://medintelligence.free.fr/arirak.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Daras%2Bchalabi%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26newwindow%3D1%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26scoring%3Dd). **[Khomeini’s Incorporation of the Iranian Military](http://www.ndu.edu/inss/McNair/mcnair48/mcnair48.pdf)** _(.pdf)_ _NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY McNair Paper 48 January 1996_ In early May, Ayatollah Khomeini and the clerics announced the formation of a new, independent military force to serve as a counterweight([Note 76](http://www.ndu.edu/inss/McNair/mcnair48/m48c4n.html#76)) to the army that would be “the key to neutralization of future challenges from the armed personnel and thus to perpetuation of their rule.”([Note 77](http://www.ndu.edu/inss/McNair/mcnair48/m48c4n.html#77)) This new element was called the **Pasdarans** (Guardians) and eventually came to be known as the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC or Revolutionary Guards). The **Pasdaran was responsible to the religious authorities and operated outside of and parallel to the established military structure**. …the Khomeini government left the basic infrastructure of the armed forces intact while purging the monarchists from the upper ranks. Replacing the monarchists with “ideologically pure” officers… **[Pasdaran](http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:3JTKj8HwKRYJ:www.ocnus.net/artman/publish/article_6999.shtml+%22leftist+guerrillas%22+Pasdaran+%22machine+guns%22+%22Hosain+Alai%22&hl=en)** _By Global Security 3/9/03_ The Pasdaran was intended to protect the Revolution and to assist the ruling clerics in the day-to-day enforcement of the new government’s Islamic codes and morality. The Pasdaran, with its own separate ministry, has evolved into one of the most powerful organizations in Iran. Not only did it function as an intelligence organization, both within and outside the country, but it also exerted considerable influence on government policies. The Pasdaran, under the guidance of such clerics as Lahuti and Hashemi-Rafsanjani, was also “ **to act as the eyes and ears of the Islamic Revolution** ”… …President Khamenehi and Majlis speaker Hashemi-Rafsanjani were both former commanders of the Pasdaran. The Pasdaran was quite active in Lebanon. By the summer of 1982, shortly after the second Israeli invasion of Lebanon, the Pasdaran had nearly 1,000 personnel deployed in the predominantly Shia Biqa Valley. _Copyright © 2000-2004 [GlobalSecurity.org](http://GlobalSecurity.org)_ **[Qods (Jerusalem) Force Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC - Pasdaran-e Inqilab)](http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:92C7uftYgIwJ:www.fas.org/irp/world/iran/qods/+pasdaran&hl=en)** _[fas.org](http://fas.org) Friday, August 21, 1998 8:56:03 AM_ The Pasdaran has maintained an intelligence branch to monitor the regime’s domestic adversaries and to participate in their arrests and trials. The Baseej (volunteers) come under the control of the [Pasdaran]. The Baseej allegedly also monitor the activities of citizens, and harass or arrest women whose clothing does not cover the hair and all of the body except hands and face, or those who wear makeup. …foreign operations by the [Pasdaran] …encompass the activities of Hizballah and Islamic Jihad… **Pasdaran personnel operate through front companies and non-governmental organizations** , employees or officials of trading companies, banks, cultural centers or as representatives of the Foundation of the Oppressed and Dispossessed… **Qods** (Jerusalem) Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) is responsible for extraterritorial operations, **including terrorist operations**. **A primary focus for the Qods Force is training Islamic fundamentalist terrorist groups**. **The second largest Pasdaran foreign operations relates to the Kurds** (_particularly Iraqi Kurds_)… The Pasdaran has also supported the establishment of **Hizballah** branches in Lebanon, Iraqi Kurdistan, Jordan and Palestine, and the **Islamic Jihad** in many other Moslem countries including Egypt, Turkey, Chechnya and in Caucasia. The US funded Mr Karim Habib’s intelligence operation. It is _technically correct_ that _ **someone** (s)_ is documented as being responsible for the US’s decisions re INC’s Information Collection proram. And _ **someone** (s)_ of “only ‘a handful’ of [senior](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/21/iraq.chalabi/) officials” is responsible through omision or comission, mendacity or incompetence, for the sensitive intelligence making it to the INC. These responsibilities will have to be borne by _ **someone** (s)_. _ **Someone** (s)_ is in over their head. They prob’ly should’ve stayed at the think tank writing op-ed pieces. Maybe I’m just unimaginative, but the only out I see for the Adminis to say, “We knew that. We were just testing _you._ You see, were playing _them_. Yeah. We played them like a fiddle. It’s all hush-hush classified counter-intelligence stuff. But, boyo, man, We’d sure love to show you what a good job we were doing Winning The War On Terror[sup]TM[/sup]. Things like these are victories in The War On Terror[sup]TM[/sup]. Just like Libya surrendering it’s North Korean ([?](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/23/international/asia/23NUKE.html?hp)) uranium and Iran submitting to tough, effective international inspections.” Now, if the DIA actually _did_ come to the conclusion that Iran had manipulated the US into getting rid of Hussein… ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/45 "2004-05-23T10:25:28Z")
**[Iran denies Chalabi spying accusations](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5041610/)** But Tehran admits close contacts with embattled Iraqi politician _The Associated Press Updated: 5:00 a.m. ET May 23, 2004_ Iran acknowledged Sunday it had a strong dialogue with embattled Iraqi politician Ahmad Chalabi, but rejected accusations that he passed classified intelligence to Iran. “We had continuous and permanent dialogue with Chalabi and other members of the Iraqi Governing Council,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi said at a press conference. “But spying charges are unfounded and baseless. It’s not true at all.” _© 2004 The Associated Press._ ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/46 "2004-05-23T11:58:34Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > There’re still the issues of the dissemination of classified national security intelligence by a “senior” official(s) to someone known to have extensive ties to Iran and Iran’s intelligence service. > > The [Bush Admin](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5016031/site/newsweek/) characterized the info as the kind that could “ **get people killed**.” Most likely, (a member or), members of the Bush Admin are the _only_ available suspects. One of them allowed life-and-death classified national security info to be transferred to the INC and thus to the Iranians. > > This is a very serious crime. > (Despite the fact that Perle was previously caught disclosing classified national security secrets to agents of a foreign government and has still been allowed acces to classified info by this Admin.) It’s not like the treasonous dissemination of classified information to foreign nationals is anything to be surprised about. It actually seems to be SOP for the Bush administration. > [@](#): > > [Pentagon Deleted Rumsfeld Comment > Remark to Saudi About War’s Certainty Is Not in Internet Transcript of Interview > By Mike Allen > Washington Post Staff Writer > Wednesday, April 21, 2004](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28729-2004Apr20.html) > > The comment came in a key moment in the run-up to the war, when Rumsfeld and other officials were briefing Bandar on a military plan to attack and invade Iraq, and pointing to a top-secret map that showed how the war plan would unfold. The book reports that the meeting with Bandar was held on Jan. 11, 2003, in Vice President Cheney’s West Wing office. Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, also attended. > > Pentagon officials omitted the discussion of the meeting from a transcript of the Woodward interview that they posted on the Defense Department’s Web site Monday. Rumsfeld told reporters at a briefing yesterday that he may have used the phrase “take that to the bank” but that no final decision had been made to go to war. > > “To my knowledge, a decision had not been taken by the president to go to war at that meeting,” Rumsfeld said. “There was certainly nothing I said that should have suggested that, and any suggestion to the contrary would not be accurate.” > > Woodward supplied his own transcript showing that Rumsfeld told him on Oct. 23, 2003: “I remember meeting with the vice president and I think Dick Myers and I met with a foreign dignitary at one point and looked him in the eye and said you can count on this. In other words, at some point we had had enough of a signal from the president that we were able to look a foreign dignitary in the eye and say you can take that to the bank this is going to happen.” The reason why it would be considered treasonous is a bit different, i.e. in Chalabi’s case it’s the ties to Iran that they should have (and did) know about, whereas in Bandar’s case it’s the ties to terrorist funding that they should have (and did) know about. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/47 "2004-05-23T17:05:45Z")
[Chalabi on ‘Fox News Sunday’](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120697,00.html) Short version: This is all George Tenet’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/48 "2004-05-24T10:19:31Z")
Check this out, from the [LA Times](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-chalabi23may23,1,6498654.story?coll=la-home-headlines): > [@](#): > > Ahmad Chalabi, the onetime White House favorite who has been implicated in an alleged Iranian spy operation, **sent Iraqi defectors to at least eight Western spy services before the war in an apparent effort to dupe them** about Iraqi President Saddam Hussein’s illicit weapons programs, current and former U.S. intelligence officials said. > > It is not clear whether Iran had any role in the alleged use of the INC to provide disinformation to the West. U.S. officials say the **INC may have been acting on its own** when it sent out **a steady stream of defectors from 1998 to 2003 with apparently coordinated claims about Baghdad’s purported weapons of mass destruction.** > > Because even friendly spy services rarely share the identities of their informants or let outsiders meet or debrief their sources, it has only in recent months become clear that **Chalabi’s group sent defectors with inaccurate or misleading information to Denmark, England, Italy, France, Germany, Spain and Sweden, as well as to the United States** , the officials said. > > As a result, the officials said, **U.S. intelligence analysts in some cases used information from now-discredited “foreign intelligence sources” to corroborate their own assessments of Hussein’s suspected chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.** Few of the CIA’s prewar judgments have been proved accurate so far. > > **"We had a lot of sources, but it was all coming from the same pot," said a former senior U.S. intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They were all INC guys. And none of them panned out."** > > **A U.S. official confirmed** that defectors from Chalabi’s organization had provided suspect information to numerous Western intelligence agencies. “It’s safe to say he tried to game the system,” the official said. > > Officials said other evidence indicated that Chalabi’s intelligence chief had furnished Iran’s Ministry of Intelligence and Security with highly classified information on U.S. troop movements, top-secret communications, plans of the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority and other closely guarded material on U.S. operations in Iraq. From [Time](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1101040531-641077,00.html): > [@](#): > > …The decision to cut Chalabi’s U.S. funding… came on May 8, according to someone familiar with the plan. It occurred at a principals’ meeting attended by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and CIA director George Tenet. > > On May 13, dia officials who worked with the i.n.c. abandoned their office in Baghdad. The next day, the Iraqis who had been working there brought three trucks into the compound to take away files and computers from the office. A confidant of Chalabi’s says that **by the time the U.S. ordered last week’s raid, the i.n.c. had already removed its most sensitive intelligence documents.** > > Since the beginning of the occupation, the i.n.c. has worked closely with the dia and the U.S. military in Baghdad, feeding intelligence to the U.S. on the whereabouts of top Baathists and the movements of insurgent cells. But that relationship also gave Chalabi and his aides extraordinary access to members of the U.S. intelligence community. **At least two dia agents who were attached to the icp worked in the same office as Habib, the i.n.c. intel czar who is believed to have relocated to Tehran.** _Who tipped Chalabi and Aras Karim Habib off to the coming raid? And who were the DIA officials who worked so closely with Habib at the Information Collection Program? and which Pentagon civilians signed off to Habib, a long time suspected Iranian intelligence agent, heading the Pentagon funded ICP?_ Updated news links and more speculation at the [War and Piece](http://www.warandpiece.com/) blog by Laura Rozen, who (according to Kevin Drum) is the go-to site for all things Chalabi. Some exclusives too, including an amusing email from **Laurie Mylroie** in Baghdad (didn’t know she was there) describing the raid, defending Chalabi. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/49 "2004-05-24T15:29:44Z")
This is looking to be very rough for the Bush Admin. The fuckers really look like rank amateurs on the world stage. No Attack-Iraq-Bush-Backers will be defending the Admin in this thread either. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/50 "2004-05-24T22:28:45Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > The fuckers really look like rank amateurs on the world stage. That’s. Because. They _are._ Thanks for all the work, **SimonX.** I don’t need to watch the news any more; I just read your threads. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/51 "2004-05-25T01:06:51Z")
**[U.S. Steps Up Hunt in Leaks to Iraqi Exile](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/24/politics/24CHAL.html?ex=1086365854&ei=1&en=cc2c9ee26b2e92eb)** _By DAVID JOHNSTON and RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr. Published: May 24, 2004_ Federal investigators now suspect that Mr. Chalabi funneled a wide array of Pentagon and C.I.A. secrets to Iran — much more material than they believe he might have obtained through his political contacts with Americans, they said. “This was not the kind of stuff that he would have gotten by accident,” one official said. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/52 "2004-05-25T02:23:25Z")
[Coalition Ordered Chalabi Raid Not Iraqis, Says Council Member](http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=d7b913e9c3930328) > [@](#): > > A special court run by the Coalition Provisional Authority ordered raids on the offices and house of Iraqi National Congress chief Ahmed Chalabi. > … > the same extraordinary court had issued an arrest warrant against rebellious Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr on suspicion of involvement in last year’s slaying of a rival Shiite religious leader. Same court for Chalabi and Sadr! I wonder who sets their agenda? ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/53 "2004-05-25T10:59:32Z")
“Iran made me do it.” A rather surprising disaster, this turn of events, it will be interesting to see how it develops. I wonder if _to a degree_ Chalabi et al are being used as scapegoats here. If it becomes increasingly obvious to the US population that Bush and Co. had no real grounds to invade Iraq but pushed ahead anyway, they will be seen as corrupt, reckless, and warmongering, or possibly Israel-serving. If it turns out that they were duped into the course of action they took, they face the charges of gross incompetence and of being unfit to rule, since the evidence accusing Iraq was highly suspect before the invasion and was cited as inadequate by a multitude of experts. I’m guessing that being accused of incompetence is perhaps better than the alternative, and provides a bit of wiggle room to try refocus public attention on Iran and away from domestic problems. Third war of the term coming up perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/54 "2004-05-25T13:06:58Z")
This is fantastic stuff. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/55 "2004-05-25T16:30:16Z")
[INDENT] **Loose Lips on Bush’s Ship** [/INDENT] Someone of “only ‘a handful’ of [senior](http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:VlXuepcIx9AJ:www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/21/iraq.chalabi/+%22Chalabi+suspected+of+giving+U.S.+secrets+to+Iran%22&hl=en) officials” is responsible for life-and-death, classified national security info being transferred to Iran. The [Bush Admin](http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:I9JrcZd_0f8J:msnbc.msn.com/id/5016031/site/newsweek/+%22Rethinking+the+Chalabi+Connection%22&hl=en) characterized the info as that which could “get people killed.” The available suspects are members of the Bush Admin. Apparently, the ‘leak’ went through the Iraqi National Congress (INC). Reportedly, [Jordan’s King Abdullah provided a dossier](http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/21412.htm) that detailed the intelligence transfer as well as other INC crimes. In addition to espionage, the crimes attributed to the INC include extortion, robbery, kidnapping, torture, and, inevitably, embezzlement. ‘Bush administration officials’ have said that both Ahmed Chalabi, INC founder and leader, and Aras Karim Habib, chief of INC’s [Pentagon funded](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:k8UDrIDHCvYJ:www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/world/8010866.html+%22designed+to+collect,+analyze+and+disseminate+information%22+%22June+2002%22&hl=en) Intelligence Collection Program ( [ICP](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:UiV2HKceDR4J:www.iraqgroup.net/news_press/2004/march_2004/english/wmd_3_mar_04.html+aras+chalabi&hl=en) ) are suspected conduits for the transfer of the sensitive intel to Iran. There’s said to be **‘_undeniable intelligence_’** that Chalabi met with a senior Iranian intelligence, a “nefarious figure from the dark side of the regime - [an individual with a direct hand in covert operations directed against the United States](http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:OqffQbDviDQJ:www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/20/iraq/main618637.shtml+%22Ahmad+Chalabi%27s+Fall+From+Grace%22&hl=en).” [As far back as the nineties](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:bY6QFQoHprwJ:www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/wools.htm+aras+chalabi&hl=en), and as recently as [this month](http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:CYKubwFcCOQJ:www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-wochal213812290may21,0,7818446.story%3Fcoll%3Dny-worl+%22Chalabi+aide+is+suspected+spy%22&hl=en), Mr. Aras Karim Habib been knownwn to be working for Iran. Mr. Aras Karim Habib’s a Kurdish Iraqi who converted to Shiism after the the ayatollah Komeyni seized power. Mr. Aras Karim Habib went to Iran and [joined](http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:J0xF9SJpvdAJ:medintelligence.free.fr/arirak.htm+%22Contraint+de+s%27exiler,+il+s%27engage+dans+les+Pasdarans%22&hl=en) the [Pasdaran](http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:92C7uftYgIwJ:www.fas.org/irp/world/iran/qods/+pasdaran&hl=en). The Qods (Jerusalem) Force of the Pasdaran train Islamic fundamentalist terrorist groups. Qods Force supported the establishment of Hizballah and Islamic Jihad branches.The second largest Pasdaran foreign operations relates to the Iraqi Kurds. Someone is responsible for the sensitive intelligence making it to the INC. This brings us to the [FBI’s investigation](http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:VlXuepcIx9AJ:www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/21/iraq.chalabi/+%22Chalabi+suspected+of+giving+U.S.+secrets+to+Iran%22&hl=en) into who may have passed on the classified information to Chalabi. INC spokesman Entifadh Qunbar, in a letter to the Senate Appropriations Committee, discusses two contacts in the USG. It describes deputy assistant to the vice president for national security affairs, John Hannah, as the “[principal point of contact](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:-lWSPrlXWSAJ:www.msnbc.com/news/1002223.asp+%22Exclusive:+Cheney+and+the+%E2%80%98Raw%E2%80%99+Intelligence%22&hl=en)” for the INC’s ICP and even provided Hannah’s direct White House telephone number. John Hannah and fellow Vice presidential aide Lewis “Scooter” Libby wrote the dossier [meant to serve as the basis for Powell’s February 6, 2003 to the UN](http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:EUYYffw7v6wJ:www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=884907706-20+%22john+hannah%22+cheney+biography+serve+powell+basis+february&hl=en). Powell sent the dossier for further fact checking because it contained ‘[bullshit](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:lrStKCSPa6YJ:www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/unmovic/2003/0609conseq.htm+%22By+Bruce+B.+Auster,+Mark+Mazzetti+and+Edward%22&hl=en)’. Qunbar also mentions William Luti, ([Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Plans and Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:iF4DrbxvfXcJ:www.defenselink.mil/photos/Jun2003/030604-D-2987S-052.html+%22william+Luti%22+site:.mil&hl=en), and former military adviser to former House Speaker Newt Gingrich), who, after working on Cheney’s staff early in the Bush administration, shifted to the Pentagon, where he oversaw a secretive Iraq war-planning unit called the [Office of Special Plans](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=199309). Curiously enough John Hannah recently arrived at the [dead](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:nHiFrDGkCJIJ:archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/a-list/2004w06/msg00060.htm+%22John+Hannah%22+%22Cheney%27s+chief+of+staff,+Lewis+%22Scooter%22+Libby%22+%22Cheney+employees%22+site:.edu&hl=en) [center](http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:wmFXBrBfRxoJ:www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4029.shtml+%22criminal+misconduct%22++Cheney's+chief+staff+Lewis+Scooter+Libby+plame+%22John+Hannah%22&hl=en) of the Plame scandal. “It is believed that the FBI officers …interviewed John Hannah…and may be offering an incentive to him to reveal what he knows about other officials.” The CIA and the State Department each supported then abandoned the INC. The CIA determined that [Chalabi had little support in Iraq](http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:lLPGEeDG5EYJ:www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/unmovic/2003/0610weaponsgate.htm+%25E2%2580%259Dclassified+report%22+CIA+concluded+Chalabi+%22popular+support+among%22+%22Iraqi+people%25E2%2580%259D&hl=en). And the State Dept noticed that, despite a team of accountants, [Chalabi couldn’t account for millions of the US’s money](http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:3CbBDT83PGcJ:www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2002/msg00013.html+%25E2%2580%259Drevealed+serious+financial+management+and+internal+control+weaknesses%22+&hl=en).Yet, in spite of this, the Pentagon resumed funding for the INC and its ICP. Powell recently referred to some ICP provided information as ‘[inaccurate,’ ‘wrong’ ‘deliberately misleading’](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:-j9TTiOjiIAJ:www.state.gov/secretary/rm/32505.htm+%22inaccurate%22+%22wrong%22+%22deliberately+misleading%22+site:.gov&hl=en). The Pentagon funded Mr. Aras Karim Habib’s intelligence operation. Someone is documented as being responsible for the US’s decisions re INC’s Information Collection Progam. Is it the same someone who’s responsible for the sensitive intelligence making it to the INC? Maybe the FBI’ll offer Mr. Hannah more ‘incentives’? Note that this is not new for members of the Bush Amdin. Don’t forget about the ‘[Vulcan](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:hN92LqpYcJ0J:yaleglobal.yale.edu/about/pdfs/bush_revolution.pdf+Vulcan+%22richard+perle%22&hl=en)’ Richard Perle passing classified national security information to agents of a foreign government in the seventies. _Wish this could infect the glurge network._ ---
**Author:** ![Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a88e57/32.png) [@Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/56 "2004-05-25T18:21:05Z")
With all due respect to **SimonX** ’s exhaustive list of reports, am I the only one who sees all of this as being yet another slice from the same bullshit cake that the Niger uranium nonsense was cut from? We are to believe that somehow Iran’s intelligence service was able to dupe not only the most well funded, well trained, and well equipped intelligence service, but also that of England and Israel? That these folks have been slowly but quite effectively been leading at least three of the world’s very best intelligence services on for years? These are the same folks who are having long running discussions on how a person can avoid facing Mecca while taking a shit, yet they are able to dupe the U.S. into going into war, huh? And what is the proof for this? Yet more shadowy figures lurking in the dark meeting this guy and that guy. This is all quite reminiscent of the same shadowy folks from Saddam’s gang who were meeting Al Qaeda members. I think there’s been ample proof that such stories were little more than decorative lies to justify a mission that had already been decided. First off, _why_ would Iran want Saddam gone so badly any way? He was only a threat so long as the U.S. was holding him up. If the U.S. hadn’t supported him so much throughout the 80’s, Iran would have mopped the floor with his ass a long time ago. Secondly, relations between Iran and Saddam had actually started to thaw prior to the war. Both sides had engaged in dialogue and there had been exchanges of prisoners of war. But all of this was a decoy according to… why it’s the truthful folks at the CIA! Right, Tenet and his gang of truth sayers. The same folks who wound up looking like assholes in from of the U.S. Congress after the WMD excuse fell apart (strangely enough, they were the ones who were saying the Niger “evidence” was not valid). I’ll agree that there’s definitely been a lot of lies and falsified evidence throughout this nightmare, but the source of that is none other than the world’s biggest spin factory, the White House and it’s various subsidieries like the Office of Special Plans. If I was to venture a guess as to why the U.S. and their chief puppet are having a falling out, I’d say it was because it’s quite obvious the U.S. has zero credibility left in Iraq. Ahmed Chalabi, doing what he does best, is once again switching the side that is most likely going to gain power, the Shi’ites. Of course, that by default also means Iran will be having some comfortable relations with the expected future leaders of Iraq. And since nothing bothers the Americans more than knowing they’ve done anything in Iran’s favor, the conjure up this lovely butt nugget for the Americans’ consumption. It helps them, as always, place the blame on every place other than where it belongs; squarely on the shoulders of the leaders of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/57 "2004-05-25T18:51:49Z")
> [@Philosopher](#): > > With all due respect to **SimonX** ’s exhaustive list of reports, am I the only one who sees all of this as being yet another slice from the same bullshit cake that the Niger uranium nonsense was cut from? No, you’re not. I said from the beginning that this struck me as so much GWB CYA, and I’m still subscribing to that magazine. It’s easier for the White House to wash their hands of the Iraq debacle by blaming it all on the duplicity of the _soooper-sneaky_ Iranian undercover _uberspy_ Chalabi than to simply admit that they screwed up eight ways to Sunday on their own. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/58 "2004-05-25T20:27:36Z")
> [@Philosopher](#): > > With all due respect to **SimonX** ’s exhaustive list of reports, am I the only one who sees all of this as being yet another slice from the same bullshit cake that the Niger uranium nonsense was cut from? Depends on how you mean that sentence. > [@Philosopher](#): > > We are to believe that somehow Iran’s intelligence service was able to dupe not only the most well funded, well trained, and well equipped intelligence service, but also that of England and Israel? That these folks have been slowly but quite effectively been leading at least three of the world’s very best intelligence services on for years? Actually, if you’ll note, nobody’s saying anything remotely of that sort. The CIA at one point thought that Mr. Habib was so dangerous that even his cousin represented a threat to the US. The CIA determined that Chalabi was a snake oil salesman. The State Department said that the INC was untrustable. The DIA labelled one of the defectors provided by the INC’s ICP a ‘fabricator’, yet almost two years later the Bush Admin was still using info provided by that ‘fabricator.’ Colin Powell flat out said that some of what the INC was selling was ‘deliberately misleading.’ Nobody’s saying that the various intel agencies were duped. The charges are that a group of ideologues outside of the Intelligence Community were duped. We’re not talking about America’s best and brightest in the Intelligence Community here. These are think-tank ideologues acting out their ‘big ideas’ and discovering the differences between theory and practice. Wolfowitz is a Mylroie conspiracist for crying out loud. There were a reasons why the INC’s ICP, ([an office ‘within the Department of Defense for collection of specialized national foreign intelligence through reconnaissance programs’](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:mqwXgbyAJ0UJ:www.cia.gov/cia/publications/facttell/intelligence_community.html+offices+%22Department+of+Defense%22+collection+%22specialized+national+foreign+intelligence%22+reconnaissance+site:www.cia.gov&hl=en), btw) reported directly to Hannah in the VP’s office and Luti in the SECDEF’s office, (and the [Office of Special Plans](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=199309)) even though they were [funded through the DIA](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:mqwXgbyAJ0UJ:www.cia.gov/cia/publications/facttell/intelligence_community.html+%22Community+includes%22+%22the+Defense+Intelligence+Agency%22+site:www.cia.gov&hl=en). The CIA and the DIA knew that they were full of shit. > [@Philosopher](#): > > If I was to venture a guess as to why the U.S. and their chief puppet are having a falling out, I’d say it was because it’s quite obvious the U.S. has zero credibility left in Iraq. Ahmed Chalabi, doing what he does best, is once again switching the side that is most likely going to gain power, the Shi’ites. Of course, that by default also means Iran will be having some comfortable relations with the expected future leaders of Iraq. And since nothing bothers the Americans more than knowing they’ve done anything in Iran’s favor, the conjure up this lovely butt nugget for the Americans’ consumption. It helps them, as always, place the blame on every place other than where it belongs; squarely on the shoulders of the leaders of the United States. Whatever’s going on, it’s enough for the FBI to start an investigation into the leaking of classified national security info. The INC definiitely has ties to the IRanian intelligence services. The WH did use some of the delibertely misleading info provided by the INC. The only part that you’re wuestioning ishwether or not the WH was ‘duped.’ Which, of course, brings us back to the defining question of the Bush Admin - mendacity or incompetence? > [@rjung](#): > > It’s easier for the White House to wash their hands of the Iraq debacle by blaming it all on the duplicity of the soooper-sneaky Iranian undercover uberspy Chalabi than to simply admit that they screwed up eight ways to Sunday on their own. Trusting Chalabi _is_ a screw up. The only C they can get for their A is to say that they were involved in a counter-counter-intelligence effort. There’s not a winning combo for the team on this one. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/59 "2004-05-25T22:27:16Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Trusting Chalabi _is_ a screw up. The only C they can get for their A is to say that they were involved in a counter-counter-intelligence effort. Sure is, but notice that the media reports are playing up the “Chalabi is a double-crossing spy” while ignoring the “Administration officials kept trusting him even after the intelligence agencies said he was untrustworthy” angle. It’s a classic case of misdirection. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481/60 "2004-05-25T22:57:43Z")
Iran has proven to be a surprisingly strong intrigue player and a thorn to many a presidents. The worst scandals recently involving presidents, other than Clinton’s, was about dealings with Iran. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dia-says-iran-used-inc-to-get-us-in-iraq/246481.md?page=4)