# Diablo 3: Gripes thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 16, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054 "2012-05-16T02:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/21 "2012-05-16T19:31:21Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > The statement “the skill tree was dumbed down” is false. > > For reference, here is the D3 character builder: [Diablo III](http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian) > > From this you can see that the number of possible combinations of skills far outnumbers those of D2, and that the skills and their runes are each by and large tactically unique. The limit of six skills at once makes decision-making about the skills (for solo but more especially for MP) a pretty satisfying activity from a cerebral viewpoint. > > There is nothing about the skill point system in D2 which makes it “smarter” than the skill rune system in D3. False for you maybe. I’m very happy you think the system is more robust and satisfying than the one in D2. It is certainly dumbed down, particularly in the first 10-20 levels. I don’t see how that is even debatable. You aren’t even given a choice regarding your skills until around level 8 or 9. I can understand how having your character permanently configured at each level ala D2 could be a turn off to some gamers but to me that was alot of what made the game fun, particularly online and in PVP. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/22 "2012-05-16T20:04:38Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > False for you maybe. I’m very happy you think the system is more robust and satisfying than the one in D2. > > It is certainly dumbed down, particularly in the first 10-20 levels. I don’t see how that is even debatable. It’s not dumbed down because you need to make the decision about which skill to use constantly, instead of only once. You don’t decide which skill to take at each level; you decide which skill to use at each instant. Going up against a big bad? Maybe the ice ray is what you want. Against hordes of little things? Try the arcane orb. Do you need your magic missile to do extra damage, or to split into pieces? Is it better to hit lots of folks close to you, or a medium amount of folks at medium range, or one person at a great distance? It may be that this game is more tactical, whereas D2 is more strategic. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/23 "2012-05-16T20:10:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s not dumbed down because you need to make the decision about which skill to use constantly, instead of only once. You don’t decide which skill to take at each level; you decide which skill to use at each instant. > > Going up against a big bad? Maybe the ice ray is what you want. Against hordes of little things? Try the arcane orb. Do you need your magic missile to do extra damage, or to split into pieces? Is it better to hit lots of folks close to you, or a medium amount of folks at medium range, or one person at a great distance? > > It may be that this game is more tactical, whereas D2 is more strategic. This. I played through the stress-test beta as a demon hunter and a bit as a monk, and didn’t find that the different attacks made much of a difference, but playing as a sorcerer (or whatever it’s called) I find myself swapping frequently between magic missile and lightning sparks as my primary attack, and the playstyle is very different between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/24 "2012-05-16T20:13:45Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not dumbed down because you need to make the decision about which skill to use constantly, instead of only once. You don’t decide which skill to take at each level; you decide which skill to use at each instant. Which is dumbed down compared to a system where you need to choose a skill at leveling up _and_ while using them. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/25 "2012-05-16T20:37:00Z")
The pre-decided attribute point ratios (along with the fact that gear no longer has attribute point requirements) annoys me a lot more than the skill thing. The skills open up pretty well once you get past level 20. The stats always stay boring as hell. The graphics are kind of underwhelming, not necessarily in quality but in style. The first two Diablo games both absolutely oozed style, relative to when they were released. This one… does not. It’s hard to make a specific argument but I was just playing Diablo II last week to prepare, and it’s still got that same awesome atmosphere and “feel”. There’s also a lot of stuff I really like, but this is the complaining thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/26 "2012-05-16T20:50:00Z")
Is this the thread where I get advice on my lagging problems? Or should I make another thread? I checked the D3 fora but it’s basically just people saying (to someone with similar problems) that their PC sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/27 "2012-05-16T20:59:56Z")
Deckard Cains dialogue is cringe worthy and nonsensical too. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/28 "2012-05-16T21:52:37Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > 1. You can’t actually attack with weapons it appears. My witch doctor can equip all kinds of shit and you can see it in his hands, but he can only attack with “skills” like the blow dart. I thought I just didn’t know what I was doing but looking around online it seems that many other people also can’t attack with equipped weapons. If this is true its VERY disappointing. I think you can still have “auto attack” as one of your mouse buttons (you default with it before you get a secondary skill) but there’s no real reason since you’ll always want to be attacking with a resource-generating skill, generally. > [@](#): > > 1. The skill tree has been WAY dumbed down. There is no permanency to any of my decisions. It also doesn’t seem to be possible to find gear that boosts a specific skill like there was in D2. It’s all generic modifiers. Also disappointing. Is there even class specific gear? I can’t tell. The skill tree is definitely different. I haven’t decided how I feel about it yet. On one hand, the skill tree in D2 had problems. Almost every skill was either 1 point or 20. (A select few were worth, say, 9 points, but they definitely had a “point of diminishing returns” where there was an optimal amount of points to place in it). So I don’t mind getting away from that. On the other hand, D3’s has problems too. It’s slow and boring since every character will have the same skills starting out. Being able to switch the skill setup when you want takes away the feeling of “building” a character and being an individual. Getting the runes and passives unlocked by the end of the game will probably make it better, but early on it feels lackluster. Skill damage in D3 is all based off your weapon damage, so … while you won’t find gear with stuff like “+1 to Fire Bolt”, EVERY weapon affects your spells. And yes, there is class-specific gear. There are several things only one class can equip (fist weapons for Monk, mighty 2-handers for Barbarians, voodoo masks for Witch Doctors, etc). > [@](#): > > 1. The loot, at least in the first act of normal mode, is VERY slow coming. I’m not finding SHIT even when I have the magic shrines active. I got lots of blues throughout Act I, and a few yellows off the big bosses. Comparable to D2. The magic find shrine is only +25%, which isn’t much of an increase when you have no MF gear. (I’m not sure how the MF calculations work yet though). > [@](#): > > 1. The graphics are good, but not great. They are about on par with Titan’s Quest, which is quite old now. I know they want it to be able to play on as many systems as possible but still… My only complaint with the graphics is that its hard to tell what’s going on sometimes, especially with Witch Doctors in the party (SPIDERS EVERYWHERE). Something about 3d graphics just not being as crisp and clean as sprites. > [@Cubsfan](#): > > Deckard Cains dialogue is cringe worthy and nonsensical too. Yeah, you can tell in the last few years (probably from the Warcraft 3 expansion onwards) that Blizzard’s lost their good writers. WoW had some stupid ideas, SC2 had lots of bad cliche dialogue (and pretty much everyone acts out of character), and D3’s no different. > [@Kiros](#): > > The pre-decided attribute point ratios (along with the fact that gear no longer has attribute point requirements) annoys me a lot more than the skill thing. The skills open up pretty well once you get past level 20. The stats always stay boring as hell. Someone tried to make the argument that there was actually MORE stat customization in D3 because it’s easier to get a lot more +stat points on items, especially with gems. I’m not buying it. D2’s stat system was definitely problematic in that half the stats were useless so everyone followed the same one or two stat builds (melee characters were STR for gear, DEX for hit/block, rest in VIT; mages were STR for gear, rest in VIT), but that should’ve been fixed by making all the stats useful instead of taking away our ability to change them. > [@](#): > > The graphics are kind of underwhelming, not necessarily in quality but in style. The first two Diablo games both absolutely oozed style, relative to when they were released. This one… does not. It’s hard to make a specific argument but I was just playing Diablo II last week to prepare, and it’s still got that same awesome atmosphere and “feel”. Agree, and it might also be another side effect of the switch to 3D. Everything seems to lack a certain style… ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/29 "2012-05-16T23:41:58Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > False for you maybe. The statement “the system is dumbed down” is pretty objective. It’s either true or false, simpliciter–not relative to individuals. I argued that the D3 system does not require less brainpower to use. Do you think it does? > [@](#): > > I’m very happy you think the system is more robust and satisfying than the one in D2. > > It is certainly dumbed down, particularly in the first 10-20 levels. I don’t see how that is even debatable. You aren’t even given a choice regarding your skills until around level 8 or 9. And after that level, the number of choices increases rapidly. You didn’t say that levels 8 and below are dumbed down. You said the system as a whole is. Here you’re backing off of that position? > [@](#): > > I can understand how having your character permanently configured at each level ala D2 could be a turn off to some gamers but to me that was alot of what made the game fun, particularly online and in PVP. What this has to do with the question of whether hte system is “dumbed down” I am not at all sure. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/30 "2012-05-16T23:43:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which is dumbed down compared to a system where you need to choose a skill at leveling up _and_ while using them. I know you said earlier that you used upwards of six skills constantly in D2, but checking around it really appears your experience is not typical. People typically, as far as I can determine, just use two or three skills in D2. It’s one of hte major complaints about the game from those who are wont to complain. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/31 "2012-05-17T00:02:42Z")
Well, those same folks could just use two or three skills in D3, too. I don’t see any sense in them complaining about the choices they made themselves. Oh, and near as I can tell, every class has three different body slots with class-specific items, usually a main hand weapon, an off-hand item, and some other slot. Witch doctors, for instance, have ceremonial daggers, mojos (voodoo doll-type things), and masks. ---
**Author:** ![buckgully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@buckgully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckgully)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/32 "2012-05-17T00:24:13Z")
> [@Viridiana](#): > > Sorry, I meant the first paragraph as ‘please don’t be too discouraged and keep trying,’ rather than ‘no, you’re wrong about not being able to play’ 😛 Oh, no worries. The way my luck works, even if they’d only been down for 2 minutes 4 times the whole day, I would have tried to log in at the beginning of each of those 2 minute periods. I was able to eventually get in and play for a few minutes. I liked it. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/33 "2012-05-17T00:44:33Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Deckard Cains dialogue is cringe worthy and nonsensical too. Sure, but I don’t remember the dialogue in D2 as being particularly memorable either. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/34 "2012-05-17T01:07:04Z")
no way to turn off the minimap or at least adjust the transparency. it’s too early to tell since my characters are all low levels, but the skill system looks fine so far. one question - does it mean there would be no reason to start, say, two barbarians? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/35 "2012-05-17T01:08:29Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > no way to turn off the minimap or at least adjust the transparency. > > it’s too early to tell since my characters are all low levels, but the skill system looks fine so far. one question - does it mean there would be no reason to start, say, two barbarians? If you can change your skill set at any time, for free, then no. If there’s a hefty cost, or you can only change things when you level, then maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/36 "2012-05-17T01:17:23Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > no way to turn off the minimap or at least adjust the transparency. > > it’s too early to tell since my characters are all low levels, but the skill system looks fine so far. one question - does it mean there would be no reason to start, say, two barbarians? Only reasons would be: Softcore/Hardcore characters Male/Female characters. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/37 "2012-05-17T01:27:52Z")
Apparently my iMac’s video card isn’t supported (and the forum article about system requirements suggests the game won’t even launch on my machine), but with appropriate (very low) video settings the game is perfectly playable. I’ve gotten a Wizard to level 10. My only complaint isn’t even really a complaint: I’ve been playing MMOs almost exclusively for the last 3+ years, and being completely unable to change my view/zoom took me a while to get used to again. Going back to this isometric view was a bit tricky. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/38 "2012-05-17T01:30:32Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > The statement “the system is dumbed down” is pretty objective. It’s either true or false, simpliciter–not relative to individuals. You don’t think that “dumb” is relative to the individual? Are you serious or are you high? Or are you just being argumentative? > [@](#): > > I argued that the D3 system does not require less brainpower to use. Do you think it does? Yes. That’s what I meant by “dumbed down”. It’s impossible to make a mistake in building your character. I prefer games that don’t have OOPS buttons. Clearly you disagree so it must be your speed. Peace dude. > [@](#): > > And after that level, the number of choices increases rapidly. You didn’t say that levels 8 and below are dumbed down. You said the system as a whole is. Here you’re backing off of that position? No. The system is dumbed down. As I said earlier it’s clearly your speed so live large! > [@](#): > > What this has to do with the question of whether hte system is “dumbed down” I am not at all sure. Where did I ask a question? Are you high? I guess that’s a question. Parsing parsing parsing etc… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/39 "2012-05-17T01:32:39Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > You don’t think that “dumb” is relative to the individual? Are you serious or are you high? Tone it down, please. Thanks, RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/40 "2012-05-17T01:36:03Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > it’s too early to tell since my characters are all low levels, but the skill system looks fine so far. one question - does it mean there would be no reason to start, say, two barbarians? > [@Ethilrist](#): > > If you can change your skill set at any time, for free, then no. If there’s a hefty cost, or you can only change things when you level, then maybe. > [@Frylock](#): > > Only reasons would be: > > Softcore/Hardcore characters > Male/Female characters. Yeah, and that all fits with the next gripe: (even though I haven’t got the game yet, and am still undecided) D2 - Unlimited accounts/characters D3 - One account, **10 character limit**. (unless that’s changed and I didn’t hear about it, which is a distinct possibility) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054.md?page=3)