# Diablo 3: Gripes thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 16, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054 "2012-05-16T02:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/161 "2012-05-22T13:55:03Z")
If you wanted to try to treat potions realistically, the first thing would be to not let people drink them while running around and being struck by enemy fire. (Not to mention the shatterproof bottles and the corks that somehow never come unstuck while you’re being thrown across the room but also never get stuck when it comes time to uncork them). ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/162 "2012-05-22T14:57:39Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > If you wanted to try to treat potions realistically, the first thing would be to not let people drink them while running around and being struck by enemy fire. (Not to mention the shatterproof bottles and the corks that somehow never come unstuck while you’re being thrown across the room but also never get stuck when it comes time to uncork them). Some level of abstraction is appropriate. Implementing a cooldown doesn’t abstract anything, it’s just gamist nonsense intruding. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/163 "2012-05-22T15:21:23Z")
why the particular objection to potions? why not spells too? aren’t the magic potion just another form of spell? > [@CandidGamera](#): > > … > > - No real sense of character, because there are no permanent choices. > … would it help if you would simply role-play it as permanent? decide on your build beforehand and do not stray from your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/164 "2012-05-22T16:07:29Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > would it help if you would simply role-play it as permanent? decide on your build beforehand and do not stray from your choice. This is an age old argument that still makes no sense. Sure you can do exactly this if you are only playing single player but multiplayer requires everyone to play from the same rule sheet. I can stick to my build forever and have no problem doing so if the people I’m fighting are locked into theirs. But if my opponent can change his toon at will to counter mine it makes it impractical to stick to my build. Part of the fun of pvp is seeing how your toon stacks up against others. If everyone can have nearly the same build the fun is diminished for many of us. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/165 "2012-05-22T16:45:58Z")
and on the flip side your view is curious to me too. i would prefer everyone to have access to the same spells, that way i would know i won because of “skill” rather than a fortunate throw of scissors-paper-stone. is it any less fun for you to defeat someone’s toon and they came back with another character in D2? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/166 "2012-05-22T16:53:56Z")
```auto ``` > [@CandidGamera](#): > > Some level of abstraction is appropriate. Implementing a cooldown doesn’t abstract anything, it’s just gamist nonsense intruding. Oh, nonsense. Everyone knows that it’s possible to overdose on potions, just like it’s possible to overdose on nearly every other kind of medicine, and it really annoyed me when they didn’t implement that reality in D2. Now the game prevents overdoses by requiring you to wait between taking doses of medicine. That’s much closer to how magic potions work in the real world than D2 was. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/167 "2012-05-22T16:56:54Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > This is an age old argument that still makes no sense. Sure you can do exactly this if you are only playing single player but multiplayer requires everyone to play from the same rule sheet. I can stick to my build forever and have no problem doing so if the people I’m fighting are locked into theirs. But if my opponent can change his toon at will to counter mine it makes it impractical to stick to my build. > > Part of the fun of pvp is seeing how your toon stacks up against others. If everyone can have nearly the same build the fun is diminished for many of us. So play a different game, then. D1 didn’t have anything like “builds”: you grabbed as many spells as you could. D2 locked you into particular builds, and you freakin’ loved that, while a lot of us didn’t. D3 focuses on tactics instead of on builds, which will inevitably lead to a greater variety of tactics in battles instead of fewer. You prefer your opponents to be locked into a single build? D2 is still out there, and Titanquest is still out there, and nobody is ever going to stop you from playing those, er, dumbed-down games, games where you only need to learn a single set of tactics instead of learning a variety of moves and counter-moves. But those of us that want a highly dynamic tactical game are going to prefer one like D3. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/168 "2012-05-22T17:29:52Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > But if my opponent can change his toon at will to counter mine it makes it impractical to stick to my build. … then don’t, maybe ? No dog in the fight, but your argument kinda sounds like “but if anyone can change to a Scout mid-match, it makes it impractical for me to stick to being a Sniper !” Well, yes. That’s sort of the point, innit ? Are you seriously arguing that it would be better if everyone was forced to stick to whichever build your own is designed to fuck up, and get pwnd again and again for your amusement ? Until someone grinds up (and gears up) a character specifically designed to beat yours over and over ? Because that doesn’t seem much fun to me, on either side of the equation. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/169 "2012-05-22T19:43:53Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > “Oh no, my arm suddenly won’t respond to lift this potion vial to my lips.. damn! it’s only been 18 seconds since I last drank a potion.. good thing my arm still works for everything else!” > > That’s idiotic. And potions in that fictional universe never had problems being sequentially chugged before… A realism argument in a fantasy video game is a pretty ridiculous thing to make. How can you justify any cooldowns on anything? “Oh, I can’t do my armor buffing shout again for 30 seconds? What, did my voice go away? Oh, I can’t stomp the ground to stun my enemies for 15 seconds? Why, am I paralyzed from the waist down?” You can apparently accept the realism of having a health bar, and having a magic potion that you can instantly consume that immediately restores your health, yet it’s wildly unrealistic if there are limitations on how often you can do it? Please, describe the mechanism by which magic healing potions actually restore the body’s health, in detail, and then explain to us why there’s nothing in that process that could put a limitation on how often you could do it. Impress us with your dedication to realism. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/170 "2012-05-22T21:29:46Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Please, describe the mechanism by which magic healing potions actually restore the body’s health A wizard did it? d&r ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/171 "2012-05-22T21:39:31Z")
Wizards doing things have a 30 second cooldown. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/172 "2012-05-22T21:51:59Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > - They add a ton of convenience fixes, but take away D2’s biggest - the Run feature. So much boring ground to cover. Especially in New Tristram, apparently founded by the famous Spanish cartographer, Zorro. Let me jog back over to the guy who sells rings again.. Uh, I think they just took out the Walk “feature” that no one used. You’re just always running now. No more Stamina, thankfully. (I agree though the town layouts are pretty annoying. Yeah, let’s copy the D2 Act 3 layout, the only one of the five that was annoying…) After some more playing, I think most of my complaints center around the terrible item system. Legendaries/sets are useless compared to good blues/yellows. Sure, in D2, you could always find that one rare with perfect affixes better than uniques, but most of the time you relied on the uniques and sets (or runewords). But you can look in the auction house and find blue weapons with twice the DPS of the best uniques, and that’s not good. And the affixes are too generic; everything boils down to DPS, primary damage stat and VIT. None of the other stats are really all that useful, or in too small of numbers to be useful (like life steal, resource generators, etc). The lack of cool items also leeches over to the lack of cool builds. No longer will I be searching for obscure items like Death’s Web or Trang Oul’s gloves so I can make my poison necro… instead I’ll just keep searching for another maul with bigger DPS or more strength for my barbarian that hits things like everyone else’s barbarian. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/173 "2012-05-23T00:06:35Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > And the affixes are too generic; everything boils down to DPS, primary damage stat and VIT. None of the other stats are really all that useful, or in too small of numbers to be useful (like life steal, resource generators, etc). On a tangentially related note, I noticed that my elemental resistances are based on INT. Assuming D3 does the same thing as D2 and nerf your resistances more and more at higher difficulty levels, are caster classes going to have an easier time with this aspect of the game, or do other classes get resistances from some other stat (other than +resistances on items, of course)? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/174 "2012-05-23T02:04:16Z")
Everyone’s resistances are based on INT, and that’s the only reason for anyone who doesn’t start with W to care at all about it. This will presumably make Ws better able to deal with elemental-damage foes, but by the same token, armor depends on Str, so barbarians will be better able to deal with physical foes. ---
**Author:** ![Chipacabra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@Chipacabra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chipacabra)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/175 "2012-05-23T03:19:12Z")
resistance(from int) and armor both apply to all damage, with slightly different math. The way the math and itemization works out, it’s best to balance both armor and resistance. edit: Specifically, one point of strength gives you exactly as much survivability against all damage as one point of int. One point of dex theoretically is just as good, it’s just swingier since dodge is all or nothing. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/176 "2012-05-23T13:28:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > A realism argument in a fantasy video game is a pretty ridiculous thing to make. How can you justify any cooldowns on anything? “Oh, I can’t do my armor buffing shout again for 30 seconds? What, did my voice go away? Oh, I can’t stomp the ground to stun my enemies for 15 seconds? Why, am I paralyzed from the waist down?” > > You can apparently accept the realism of having a health bar, and having a magic potion that you can instantly consume that immediately restores your health, yet it’s wildly unrealistic if there are limitations on how often you can do it? > > Please, describe the mechanism by which magic healing potions actually restore the body’s health, in detail, and then explain to us why there’s nothing in that process that could put a limitation on how often you could do it. Impress us with your dedication to realism. Oh, jesus fucking christ. **I never called for realism**. I avoid that word like the plague when talking about fantasy worlds, because of people like you who can’t grasp that it doesn’t mean ‘emulation of the real world’ in that context, it means ‘simulation of an internally consistent reality’. I said simulationism. In the world of Sanctuary, there is nothing to indicate you can’t just chug potions sequentially. In fact, in 2/3rds of the games set in that realm, you can do that. And there’s no common sense reason why you couldn’t - your arm still works, your mouth still works. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/177 "2012-05-23T13:30:29Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Uh, I think they just took out the Walk “feature” that no one used. You’re just always running now. No more Stamina, thankfully. (I agree though the town layouts are pretty annoying. Yeah, let’s copy the D2 Act 3 layout, the only one of the five that was annoying…) Uh, yeah, they took out the ‘walk’ feature and then cut your running speed by 75% and took out stamina… .. or they took out the run system. The point remains, you can’t get around the boring-ass landscape as fast as you used to. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/178 "2012-05-23T13:34:59Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > would it help if you would simply role-play it as permanent? decide on your build beforehand and do not stray from your choice. Nope. It’s an entirely different feel. Further, I suspect they’ve balanced the game so that it’ll require changing your build around to meet some challenges. And lastly, if I were to do that, then the disparity in the skill system between this game and D2 becomes even worse for D3. Right now, D3 has breadth in skill, but zero depth - D2 had both breadth AND depth. By roleplaying a fixed build, it removes even that humble nod to variety. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/179 "2012-05-23T13:49:43Z")
Awright, here’s my gripe: Isn’t Nephelim plural? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054/180 "2012-05-23T13:52:16Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I know you said earlier that you used upwards of six skills constantly in D2, but checking around it really appears your experience is not typical. People typically, as far as I can determine, just use two or three skills in D2. It’s one of hte major complaints about the game from those who are wont to complain. Really? Aside from a few outlying character builds which were notable exactly _because_ they used few skills, that’s contrary to almost every discussion of D2 in which I’ve ever participated. “I don’t have enough hotkeys for all these skills” – common complaint. “I only use two skills” – can’t recall hearing it in ten years of extensive reading about the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diablo-3-gripes-thread/622054.md?page=10)