# Dialect question - "whenever" in place of "when" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 2024, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897 "2024-12-20T01:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/1 "2024-12-20T01:24:13Z")
I have recently been noticing (possibly as a [frequency illusion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion)) a thing where certain people use the word “whenever” instead of “when”. For example they might say, _“Whenever I was younger, I was afraid of dogs.”_ It sounds wrong to my ear but I’ve heard it from enough people now that it’s clearly not just an individual aberration. I first noticed this with a YouTuber I watch who is from Appalachia, and I’ve heard it now from a couple of other people from Appalachia (or at least the south-east US). But I’ve also noticed it a couple of times now from Irish people. Wiktionary indeed [describes this usage as](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whenever) “Ireland, regional US, nonstandard”. Am I right in guessing that this is a feature of the Appalachian dialect, or is it actually more widely spread in the US? Is there a linguistic connection between Hiberno-English and the Appalachian dialect? I know about the “Scotch-Irish” people but I would have expected their dialect to have more in common with Ulster Scots. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/2 "2024-12-20T18:47:35Z")
It’s definitely the norm in Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/3 "2024-12-20T20:21:49Z")
I’ve never heard it, even from my DIL from Pittsburgh, parents from WV. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/4 "2024-12-20T20:28:58Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > Is there a linguistic connection between Hiberno-English and the Appalachian dialect? I know about the “Scotch-Irish” people but I would have expected their dialect to have more in common with Ulster Scots. I’m not sure what you mean here, there isn’t a paradox. Hiberno-English and Ulster Scots are both dialects spoken in Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/5 "2024-12-20T20:46:02Z")
Interesting. The YouTuber in whom I first noticed it is apparently from Eastern Tennessee. Perhaps it is even more locally specific than just the Appalachians. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/6 "2024-12-20T20:49:26Z")
> [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean here, there isn’t a paradox. Hiberno-English and Ulster Scots are both dialects spoken in Ireland. True enough. I guess I was assuming that if the dictionary described it as an Irish usage it was implying Hiberno-English, but perhaps it was not. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/7 "2024-12-20T21:07:25Z")
I’ve definitely heard it, from “ordinary” Americans who I don’t think of as having any specific dialect, and it always sounds weird to me whenever I hear it. (Note the _proper_ use of the word “whenever.”) ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/8 "2024-12-20T22:09:00Z")
This usage is characteristic of Northern Ireland. People say things like “whenever my father died” instead of “when my father died”. This sounds really odd to people outside that speech community, including people in other parts of Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/9 "2024-12-20T22:26:37Z")
Certainly does. Sounds like they’re saying their father had a regular thing where he died once a month or every Sunday or something. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2024, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/10 "2024-12-21T03:34:29Z")
I first noticed this usage from Drew Carey when he used to host _Whose Line Is It Anyway_. He would often say “Start the game whenever you hear the music.” I hear the same thing in a podcaster that I often listen to, who mostly talks about comic books. If I’ve properly absorbed the hints he’s occasionally given about his background, he is originally from Texas. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/11 "2024-12-21T15:33:23Z")
I grew up in Eastern Tennessee, and heard it quite frequently. I never picked it up, possibly because I was first generation. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/12 "2025-06-23T17:33:40Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > I first noticed this usage from Drew Carey when he used to host _Whose Line Is It Anyway_. He would often say “Start the game whenever you hear the music.” IANA expert, but I don’t think that’s the same usage. For an unpredictable future event that’s sure to occur, like that example, “whenever” sounds fine to my dialect. For a past event w a fixed time, or for a one-time event that can’t have a future recurrence, “whenever” sounds wrong to my dialect. IME IMO YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/13 "2025-06-23T17:53:18Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > For an unpredictable future event that’s sure to occur, like that example, “whenever” sounds fine to my dialect. > > For To me it stick outs. “When” would be the natural fit in my dialect. “Whenever” implies a recurring action to me. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2025, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/14 "2025-06-26T01:09:18Z")
A post was merged into an existing topic: [Sonny Troll Posts](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sonny-troll-posts/1020150/2) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/15 "2025-06-23T18:17:17Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > He would often say “Start the game whenever you hear the music.” To me,that suggests the game is a version of musical chairs! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/16 "2025-06-23T18:23:06Z")
Exactly. That how my ears hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/17 "2025-06-23T18:32:04Z")
It’s called the “punctual whenever.” ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/18 "2025-06-23T18:32:12Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > For an unpredictable future event that’s sure to occur, like that example, “whenever” sounds fine to my dialect. > > For a past event w a fixed time, or for a one-time event that can’t have a future recurrence, “whenever” sounds wrong to my dialect. To be more specific, the game in question was “Newscasters,” where the players would be newscasters with weird quirks. They would play a generic musical sting that sounded like the opening to an “Action News” show to start the game. Drew always said “Start the game whenever you hear the music.” The music would be heard just once. I would definitely say “when” rather than “whenever.” To me, “whenever you hear the music” suggests that music would occur several times throughout the game, which was not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/19 "2025-06-23T18:50:03Z")
On a Season 1 blooper reel, there’s a playing of that game where the music accidentally started while Drew was still assigning “quirks”: DREW: Brad, you’re the co-anchor, and you have a five-second memory. [_music starts, then stops abruptly_] DREW: …like our sound guy. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897/20 "2025-06-23T19:02:10Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > The music would be heard just once. I would definitely say “when” rather than “whenever.” To me, “whenever you hear the music” suggests that music would occur several times throughout the game, which was not the case. Interesting. I understand your contention. I would it interpret it this way instead: “The music will start at an unpredictable time in the future. Upon that occurrence, begin play”. The “when” part of “whenever” connotes the “wait until” and the “ever” part of “whenever” connotes the unpredictability. Compare / contrast - We’ll go to the zoo today whenever it stops raining. vs - We’ll go to the zoo today whenever it’s 2pm. They’re both awaiting an event. But one is unpredictable and the other is totally predictable. To me, the raining example is correct usage and the 2pm example is nonstandard usage that’s confusing in my dialect. Having the “ever” carry the unpredictability semantic is useful. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialect-question-whenever-in-place-of-when/1011897.md?page=2)