# Dialog with the Trump Side - Some Helpful Suggestions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 13, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088 "2017-03-13T14:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/81 "2017-03-14T02:45:58Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > You knew damn well I was referring to the Obamacare replacement bill brah That Obamacare replacement bill that’s gonna kick 14 million people off insurance [in the first year](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/obamacare-revision-would-reduce-insured-numbers-by-24-million/2017/03/13/ea4c860a-0829-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_cbo-430pm-tabmobile-duplicate%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f7bc4a584367)? That one? If I sneak into your medicine cabinet and replace all your Advil with strychnine, you might call that your Advil Replacement Medicine, but that’s just cuz you’re special. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/82 "2017-03-14T02:47:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That Obamacare replacement bill that’s gonna kick 14 million people off insurance [in the first year](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/obamacare-revision-would-reduce-insured-numbers-by-24-million/2017/03/13/ea4c860a-0829-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_cbo-430pm-tabmobile-duplicate%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f7bc4a584367)? That one? > > If I sneak into your medicine cabinet and replace all your Advil with strychnine, you might call that your Advil Replacement Medicine, but that’s just cuz you’re special. If you were actually literate and not a caveman, you’d know that that isn’t the final version of the bill–indeed, Mr. Trump has signaled that he is going to back a more conservative alternative to the current Obamacare 2.0, given the disastrous effects it would have. A more conservative repeal of Obamacare, all its dreaded taxes is going to do the trick ([http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-repeal-conservatives-236018](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-repeal-conservatives-236018)). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/83 "2017-03-14T02:57:09Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > If you were actually literate and not a caveman, you’d know that that isn’t the final version of the bill–indeed, Mr. Trump has signaled that he is going to back a more conservative alternative to the current Obamacare 2.0, given the disastrous effects it would have. A more conservative repeal of Obamacare, all its dreaded taxes is going to do the trick ([http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-repeal-conservatives-236018](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-repeal-conservatives-236018)). How can a repeal be more conservative? It’s the replacement plan that can be more or less conservative. A more conservative plan will be _worse_ than the current. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/84 "2017-03-14T03:09:02Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Bullshit[sup]2[/sup]. The FINAL _ **Obamacare** _ bill is already the law (since 2010). Rand Paul had nothing to do with it. > [@ckalli1998](#): > > You knew damn well I was referring to the Obamacare replacement bill brah I did, as a matter of fact. As a matter of another fact, I was calling you out for referring to it as an Obamacare bill. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/85 "2017-03-14T03:19:54Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > I’m 19, thank you very much. You’re nineteen? I guess that explains a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/86 "2017-03-14T04:05:02Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > Bullshit. The final Obamacare bill will ultimately be the best one > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > snerk No, it’s true, and after World War III kills off the sicker weaker older Americans, insurance rates will drop! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/87 "2017-03-14T10:43:51Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > If you were actually literate and not a caveman, you’d know that that isn’t the final version of the bill–indeed, Mr. Trump has signaled that he is going to back a more conservative alternative to the current Obamacare 2.0, given the disastrous effects it would have. A more conservative repeal of Obamacare, all its dreaded taxes is going to do the trick ([http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-repeal-conservatives-236018](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-repeal-conservatives-236018)). Of course it’s not the final version of the bill. It’s the version that’s out there for scrutiny. The final version of the bill is unavailable for criticism, so your faith in it is charming in much the same way that my four-year-old daughter’s faith in unicorns is charming. Note, though, that the changes discussed in that article, while purely theoretical at this point, do nothing to soften the criticism I’ve offered the bill; on the contrary, they’d kick even more people off insurance, make sure that more people die of preventable causes. Also, I have a bit of advice for you, take it or leave it. You wanna know what adults don’t ever do? Go around repeatedly insisting that they’re grownups. Teenagers do that, sure. But when you keep telling us that you’re a man, it’s a bit like the eight grader who puts on way too much makeup in hopes that people will see her as a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/88 "2017-03-14T12:41:36Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > But in all fairness, you’re not arguing that he’s _only_ a fucking hypocrite. > > He’s a proud supporter of one of the ugliest, divisive movements in America. No, I’m not a leftist. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/89 "2017-03-14T12:46:11Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I am not seeing the nuance that allows you to state so confidently that he told an Indian-American woman that it was a great country that allowed her to be “here, in an Apple store,” and not a great country that allowed her to be here, in previously-mentioned “great country.” If “it is possible” is a confident assertion, then it is possible that you are stupid. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/90 "2017-03-14T12:52:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If “it is possible” is a confident assertion, then it is possible that you are stupid. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t think Spicer’s words (…allows you to be here) were a threat, but I think it’s reasonable to consider that they might have been (consciously or not) revealing about Spicer’s beliefs about ethnicity – that Spicer may not think of brown-skinned Americans as quite as authentically American (or some similar sort of nonsense) as white Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/91 "2017-03-14T13:02:18Z")
Watching SDMB conservatives these months really underscores how, of all the underlying trends that get tossed around to explain Trump, the most powerful is probably just partisanship. **Shodan** will probably vote Trump in 2020 because of how unfairly the left has treated him. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/92 "2017-03-14T13:51:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Of course it’s not the final version of the bill. It’s the version that’s out there for scrutiny. The final version of the bill is unavailable for criticism, so your faith in it is charming in much the same way that my four-year-old daughter’s faith in unicorns is charming. Note, though, that the changes discussed in that article, while purely theoretical at this point {…} You might even want to say, we have to pass the bill so that we can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/93 "2017-03-14T13:58:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, I’m not a leftist. > > Regards, > Shodan Yeah, but your version of a leftist is like Zell Miller. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/94 "2017-03-14T14:23:22Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > If you were actually literate and not a caveman, you’d know that that isn’t the final version of the bill–indeed, Mr. Trump has signaled that he is going to back a more conservative alternative to the current Obamacare 2.0, given the disastrous effects it would have. A more conservative repeal of Obamacare, all its dreaded taxes is going to do the trick ([http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-repeal-conservatives-236018](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-repeal-conservatives-236018)). Did you happen to read the first post in this thread? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/95 "2017-03-14T16:03:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If “it is possible” is a confident assertion, then it is possible that you are stupid. > > Regards, > Shodan I was polite, in the spirit of your own OP. YOU decided that calling me stupid was a civil response to my inquiry. You did assert that what spicer meant was here in the apple store. I don’t see how that can be determined. You said Actually Spicer said “be here” - as in “here in the Apple store screaming mindless insults as opposed to whatever loony bin you escaped from”. That was the confident assertion i questioned. After you did admit it was possible that spicer thought she was " imported." Your initial interpretation - the “actually he said here in the store” was so confident that you believe that she thought it was racist to say America is a great country. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088/96 "2017-03-14T16:22:16Z")
Shodan, this is really disappointing. I opened your thread actually hoping for some reasonable suggestions on how to open up constructive bipartisan dialogue; something which is sorely needed (but which, in hindsight, was a foolish expectation for the Pit).\* Instead, I see it’s just you griping about perceived Liberal hypocrisy. Not to worry, I thought, I’ll just see what he’s upset about and then we can come together in agreement that irrational screaming, harassment and violence are no way to engage in political debate and should be roundly condemned. God bless you for giving me the chance to show that even a bleeding heart lefty can condemn irrationality and violence when it happens on my side of the fence. But no, sadly, I can’t even do that. Case one: Sure, the lady was obnoxious, but she wasn’t screaming or irrational. And Spicer’s response is indeed highly suspect. You don’t have to see it as racism if you don’t want to, but don’t pretend that, all circumstances considered, it cannot be reasonably interpreted as such. (And good lord, those Fox News hosts are insufferable.) Case two: The article says only that fireworks were allegedly set off in the state Capitol (dangerous and stupid), that Linwood Kaine was arrested while taking part in the protest (which suggests the police saw reason to arrest him, but doesn’t mean he was responsible for the fireworks), that he had a scuffle with the police (doesn’t sound good for him, but then police have been known to “scuffle” with non-threatening/incapacitated people), and that he got roughed up a bit in the process (which is unfortunate, but then we don’t know whether or not it was necessary). What is there to say? Just ain’t enough information to condemn anyone, except whatever bastard decided it would be a good idea to set off fireworks in a building. Shodan, old fella, I can’t bring myself to dislike you. Probably because you’re not an outright aresehole; just a partisan curmudgeon with a good heart and a lot of wrong ideas. And you have wit, which counts for something. But this was just really disappointing. > [@Shodan](#): > > They weren’t really in response to anything Spicer said - it was just next on the list she was holding in her (obviously limited) brain. Had Spicer stuck around, she would be calling him “homophobic”. > Actually Spicer said “be here” - as in “here in the Apple store screaming mindless insults as opposed to whatever loony bin you escaped from”. Although it is possible that Spicer thought this deranged dimwit was an imported deranged dimwit. > > Not that it matters - the entertainment value of this fulminating fat head comes from her ability to interpret “this is a great country that allows you to be here” as a threat. But calling Spicer a fascist, traitor, and criminal is just normal conversation. No doubt it is for her. Anything more would require some form of brain activity, or some higher level of psychoactive medication. > > Regards, > Shodan Okay, now you’re being kind of an arsehole. \*If anyone wants some good reading with actual useful ideas on how to understand or connect to people trapped in Camp Trump, I recommend these Cracked articles by the always insightful “David Wong” and “John Cheese”. [How Half Of America Lost Its F\*\*king Mind](http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/) [5 Absolute Wrong Ways To Respond To Remorseful Trump Voters](http://www.cracked.com/blog/how-not-to-respond-to-regretful-trump-voters-guide/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dialog-with-the-trump-side-some-helpful-suggestions/782088.md?page=4)