# diamonds are whose best friend?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 26, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146 "2003-12-26T18:00:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@moonovercity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moonovercity)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/1 "2003-12-26T18:00:37Z")
My husband is forever naysaying diamonds but when I ask him the specific reason for their political incorectness he is a little vague. Something about groups with guns in South Africa… Can anyone shed some light on this issue for me? Is it really bad to buy diamonds or is he just being frugal?
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### Author:  [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/2 "2003-12-26T18:31:08Z")
Well, they’re [linked to horrible doings in Africa](http://www.amnestyusa.org/diamonds/), they finance [conflict and such](http://www.un.org/peace/africa/Diamond.html). Here’s [10 Reasons to Not Buy a Diamond, Ever](http://www.fguide.org/Bulletin/conflictdiamonds.htm).
Diamonds are controlled by the Debeers cartel, notorious for its shady dealings. They’re “valuable” because of marketing
> [@](#):
>
> Despite its elite status, the diamond, which can be found in abundance from southern Africa to Australia to northern Canada, is not the rarest of gems. With no intrinsic value, all a gem-quality diamond has to offer is the perception of its preciousness. As a symbol of eternal love, the tradition of the diamond engagement ring has become so pervasive that it’s hard to believe that this is a fairly recent phenomenon. And an extremely calculated one – the result of a marketing campaign developed at a time when the demand for diamonds had sunk to an all-time low and an increasing supply threatened the precious (as opposed to semiprecious) nature of the stones.
[Cite](http://archive.salon.com/business/feature/2000/09/27/diamonds/)
Google “blood diamonds” or “conflict diamonds” and “Debeers Cartel” for more.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/3 "2003-12-26T20:06:23Z")
As a point of fact, diamond does have intrinsic worth: It is the hardest of all materials, assuming we’ve not created a harder synthetic. It can cut glass cleanly and is a good material to make industrial-grade grinding tools out of.
But the site is right. Diamond is a simple carbon compound, and it is not rare in any sense of the term.
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### Author:  [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/4 "2003-12-26T20:41:24Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Derleth \*
> \*\*Diamond is a simple carbon compound, and it is not rare in any sense of the term. \*\*
Corundum (Al2 O3) is not rare and only diamond is harder.
However sapphires and rubies are kinda valuable.
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### Author:  [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/5 "2003-12-26T21:03:36Z")
And -
Diamond’s hardness is valuable for cutting and grinding, but it is it’s high refractive index that gives a diamond it’s fire and it’s value as jewelry.
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### Author:  [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/6 "2003-12-26T21:28:36Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by adirondack\_mike \*
> Diamond’s hardness is valuable for cutting and grinding, \*\*but it is it’s high refractive index that gives a diamond it’s fire and it’s value as jewelry. \*\*
-Which is a fancy way of saying “it’s pretty to look at”. That’s not necessarily an “intrinsic” worth, like Gold’s mallebility and/or electrical conductivity.
Diamond makes a great cutting tool- industrial diamonds can be had for a few cents a pound since there’s _piles_ of them that can’t be used for anything else. I use diamond-coated wheels to sharpen carbide lathe tools, or a diamond saw to cut tile and brick.
Diamonds this size have been manufactured for decades, for prices _far_ below that of cartel’s even non-gemstone-quality natural stones.
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### Author:  [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/7 "2003-12-26T21:59:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by adirondack\_mike \*
> \*\*And -
>
> Diamond’s hardness is valuable for cutting and grinding, but it is it’s high refractive index that gives a diamond it’s fire and it’s value as jewelry. \*\*
It’s my understanding that the OP, her husband, or anyone else would be hard put to distinguish between a diamond and a cubic zirconium.
In fact, we cannot tell one from another.
Peace,
mangeorge
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### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/8 "2003-12-26T22:07:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by mangeorge \*
> **In fact, we cannot tell one from another.**
Sure we can. It may be difficult to do visually (but by no means impossible), but there are plenty of assay tests that can easily weed out CZs from real diamonds.
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### Author:  [@TexasSpur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexasSpur)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/9 "2003-12-26T22:15:26Z")
Here is an incredible (and long) article discussing two new techniques of manufacturing diamonds. These could potentially help bring an end to the extreme overpricing of diamonds. I highly recommend reading this.
[http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html)
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### Author:  [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/10 "2003-12-26T22:27:48Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \*
> \*\*Sure we can. It may be difficult to do visually (but by no means impossible), but there are plenty of assay tests that can easily weed out CZs from real diamonds. \*\*
Sorry, I, lost my assay kit. 😉
Forget that.
Are you sure, **Q.E.D**? A couple of jewelers and my friend (a lapidary hobbiest) have told me that, even with a loupe, a good quality cz could easily pass for a diamond. Is there an inexpensive artificial diamond that I could be confusing with a cz?
In fact, I recall that one of the giveaways of a fake is it’s perfection. But I saw that on tv, so I’m not so sure.
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### Author:  [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/11 "2003-12-26T22:34:29Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*-Which is a fancy way of saying “it’s pretty to look at”. That’s not necessarily an “intrinsic” worth, like Gold’s mallebility and/or electrical conductivity.
> \*\*
Not quite - if there were other stones that had the same or higher RI then diamonds wouldn’t be unique. It is pretty to look at because it has a high RI. If it didn’t then it wouldn’t be as sparkly and “pretty to look at,” and therefore wouldn’t command as high a price.
RI of diamond approx 2.4
cubic zirconia approx 2.2.
I think the question is why do humans like shiny things. From the earliest modern human sites are found “jewelry” - Ornamental items that as far as we can had no functional value. Or functional objects that have had added features that do not enhance the functionality of the object (like figurines on clothing pins).
Since this happened before Madison Ave and college professors, what is it in our nature that makes us value “art.”
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### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/12 "2003-12-26T22:34:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by mangeorge \*
> **Are you sure, Q.E.D? A couple of jewelers and my friend (a lapidary hobbiest) have told me that, even with a loupe, a good quality cz could easily pass for a diamond.**
I’m told that the edges of the facets are rounder on CZs, whereas real diamonds have sharper edges. In any case, by _assay_ I mean a process that chemically, optically, or otherwise can distinguish between similar substances. For instance, an absorption spectrum for diamond would be different than CZ. X-ray diffraction will also reveal the differences in lattice structure that will expose the fake.
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### Author:  [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/13 "2003-12-26T22:37:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> “These are cubic zirconium?” Weingarten says without much hope.
From **TexasSpur** ’s link. Weingarten is a gem dealer in Antwerp.
The implication is, I think, obvious.
BTW; TexasSpur posted while I was replying.
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### Author:  [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/14 "2003-12-26T22:50:30Z")
I remember reading an article that said the new CZs and artificial diamonds have Debeers so worried that they’re considering putting a teensy tiny serial number on the diamond.
So if you’re not buying the industrial kind, you’re spending thousands of dollars on a shiny rock. You’re paying for the marketing, basically.
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### Author:  [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/15 "2003-12-26T22:56:48Z")
For $150 you can get a diamond tester [here](http://www.gia.org). Follow the links to the online bookstore or search for diamond tester. This is the same site that certifies jewelry appraisers and diamond grading systems (GIA certified).
If DeBeers wants to control the price then why not? Why are they any different from any other supplier. Flooding the market with whatever it is you make, grow, manufacturer, or whatever doesn’t make sense from a business point of view. Should Ford produce many more automobiles, or orange growers produce more oranges than they can sell. What, so you can afford it? Let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.
If you don’t think diamonds are valuable then don’t buy them. Simple enough. Don’t worry about what other people do.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/16 "2003-12-26T23:13:31Z")
Ah, but doesn’t DeBeers use its clout to prevent people from flooding the market?
If it doesn’t, I have no problems with it, other than the fact that I’m sure it buys blood diamonds. If it does, then your post doesn’t hold up.
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### Author:  [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/17 "2003-12-26T23:23:02Z")
I am going off the top of my head here but I believe that the largest producers of diamonds are South Africa, India, Brazil, and Canada. The amount of diamonds produced in the Bloody diamond zone is relatively insignificant. Since the influx of diamonds from that area are not going to affect the market greatly why should DeBeers want to deal in something that is first not going to help them financially and secondly have the potential for very bad publicity. If they were afraid of price drop because of an influx of diamonds they can treat it like they have done in the past (discussed in an old post on similiar topic).
Frankly, I don’t see any reason why they should be involved in blood diamonds since they have little to gain and much to lose.
Unless they are truly evil devil’s spawn.
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### Author:  [@TexasSpur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexasSpur)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/18 "2003-12-26T23:25:18Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by adirondack\_mike \*
> \*\*If DeBeers wants to control the price then why not? Why are they any different from any other supplier. Flooding the market with whatever it is you make, grow, manufacturer, or whatever doesn’t make sense from a business point of view. Should Ford produce many more automobiles, or orange growers produce more oranges than they can sell. What, so you can afford it? Let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.
>
> If you don’t think diamonds are valuable then don’t buy them. Simple enough. Don’t worry about what other people do. \*\*
Here’s why DeBeers is different: They are a monopoly. The prices are artificial. Also, the whole don’t buy them bit doesn’t work either. Why? Because women have been brainwashed by DeBeers to require them as an engagement gift.
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### Author:  [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/19 "2003-12-26T23:32:01Z")
here is a link to [De Beers grouop](http://www,debeersgroup.com/hotTopics/cdintroduction.asp) .
If you believe that all corporations are liars than don’t even bother. As I said before they have much to lose and little to gain especially when they publically take a stance.
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### Author:  [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diamonds-are-whose-best-friend/221146/20 "2003-12-26T23:33:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by TexasSpur \*
> \*\* Because women have been brainwashed by DeBeers to require them as an engagement gift. \*\*
I knew them women folks were so easily manipulated.😃
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