# Dick Cheney - free pass on lying? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408 "2005-06-29T19:22:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/21 "2005-06-29T22:30:58Z")
It is about the ability to call something a lie, vs. almost certainly true. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/22 "2005-06-29T22:31:55Z")
> [@](#): > > In 2002-03, he repeatedly said there was “no doubt” that Saddam had WMD even though they had no evidence of such weapons. He is still saying this. That’s probably true. They probably didn’t have any doubt about it. The Bush Adminstration: often wrong, but never in doubt. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/23 "2005-06-29T22:40:19Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > I’m looking for a direct quote, confirming Soylent Gene’s assertion in the OP that, Cheney said **Saddam** was involved in 9/11. To my knowledge, which I’ll readily admit is less than extensive, neither Cheney, nor Dubya, has ever made such a succint statement as fact. Bush himself said it, during the election debates. Prior to that, immediately following 9/11, he had also gleefully nudged everyone toward that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/24 "2005-06-29T23:12:06Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > I’m looking for a direct quote, confirming Soylent Gene’s assertion in the OP that, Cheney said **Saddam** was involved in 9/11. To my knowledge, which I’ll readily admit is less than extensive, neither Cheney, nor Dubya, has ever made such a succint statement as fact. Is being involved with Al Queda close enough? > [@](#): > > On Thursday in Cincinnati, Ohio, Cheney described Saddam as a “man who provided safe harbor and sanctuary to terrorists for years” and who “provided safe harbor and sanctuary as well for al Qaeda.” > > In Wisconsin on Friday, he said the “al Qaeda organization had a relationship with the Iraqis.” [http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/12/kerry.powell.iraq/](http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/12/kerry.powell.iraq/) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/25 "2005-06-29T23:31:49Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > It is about the ability to call something a lie, vs. almost certainly true. So you would argue that Saddam did not encourage or support the cause of anti-Western terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Highwayman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Highwayman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Highwayman)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/26 "2005-06-29T23:42:11Z")
I’m convinced but can someone give me any reason for not calling Cheney an Arch-Liar? ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/27 "2005-06-29T23:46:31Z")
> [@andros](#): > > So you would argue that Saddam did not encourage or support the cause of anti-Western terrorism? Actually, his being “not our friend” has been shown (not necessarily “proven beyond a shadow of a doubt”, mind you) to make him somehow “acquainted with” or “perhaps obliged to applaud” the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the sinking of the Maine, the attacks on the Alamo, and the Boston Massacre. OH! And that whole Elizabeth Smart thing, that was him too. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/28 "2005-06-29T23:46:35Z")
He lies about arches, too? The cad! No, I can’t. I think he’s regularly dishonest. But he’s damned hard to pin down on a lie. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/29 "2005-06-29T23:49:57Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Actually, his being “not our friend” has been shown (not necessarily “proven beyond a shadow of a doubt”, mind you) to make him somehow “acquainted with” or “perhaps obliged to applaud” the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the sinking of the Maine, the attacks on the Alamo, and the Boston Massacre. OH! And that whole Elizabeth Smart thing, that was him too. Christ, overdo it much? Look, all I’m saying is that “Saddam influenced Islamofascist terrorism” is not demonstrably false. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/30 "2005-06-29T23:59:55Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Christ, overdo it much? > > Look, all I’m saying is that “Saddam influenced Islamofascist terrorism” is not demonstrably false. Neither would it be demonstrably false to say the US influenced Saddam (weapons and support in the past, etc.) or that the US harbored terrorists (the 9/11 hijackers lived in the US prior to their attack), so we should mount an invasion of ???..hmmmm it’s escaping me for the moment… I can draw dotted lines all day. There is a distinct difference between making a demonstrably true statement and making a statement that is not demonstrably false. Our Mr. Cheney is engaging in applying the lowest of standards, and we are all much the worse for it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/31 "2005-06-30T00:12:09Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Neither would it be demonstrably false to say the US influenced Saddam (weapons and support in the past, etc.) or that the US harbored terrorists (the 9/11 hijackers lived in the US prior to their attack), so we should mount an invasion of ???..hmmmm it’s escaping me for the moment… > > I can draw dotted lines all day. Knock yourself out. I have never once said that Saddam’s support for terrorists justified the invasion of Iraq. Not in this thread, not anywhere. > [@](#): > > There is a distinct difference between making a demonstrably true statement and making a statement that is not demonstrably false. Our Mr. Cheney is engaging in applying the lowest of standards, and we are all much the worse for it. I agree completely. However, there’s also a difference between “not demonstrably false” and “a lie.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Highwayman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Highwayman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Highwayman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/32 "2005-06-30T00:41:42Z")
> [@andros](#): > > He lies about arches, too? The cad! > > No, I can’t. I think he’s regularly dishonest. But he’s damned hard to pin down on a lie. Well, [not](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_10/004860.php) - [hard](http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/20084/) - [enough](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/5/31/223145/928) , unfortunately for him. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/33 "2005-06-30T01:45:21Z")
Cheney lies, plain and simple. The “not demonstrably false” argument doesn’t stand up. That is like the Al Capone effect. We know he did it, but he is too slimy to catch at it. However, he has been caught many times. I’m still pissed off at the manipulation of “threat levels” during the election, and his Vote For Us Or Die bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/34 "2005-06-30T02:07:23Z")
Again, I’m not denying that. All’s I was doing was examining the claims in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/35 "2005-06-30T04:14:21Z")
> [@andros](#): > > So you would argue that Saddam did not encourage or support the cause of anti-Western terrorism? I’d like to interject. Saddam was a supporter of terrorism. He gave safe haven to known terrorists and paid $25,000 (I think was the amount) to the families of suicide bombers. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/36 "2005-06-30T04:20:53Z")
> [@The Highwayman](#): > > I’m convinced but can someone give me any reason for not calling Cheney an Arch-Liar? Yes, because no one can point to a list (arch) of supposed lies. What many people are quick to call lies are, in fact, things the administration was wrong about. For instance, there may not be WMDs in Iraq but that doesn’t mean anyone lied. At the time, England, France, Russia, the U.N., and others all believed Iraq had them. Even Michael Moore in one interview said, “Of course he had them, we gave them to him.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/37 "2005-06-30T04:33:50Z")
Andros, save your breadth. I, like you, never voted for Bush and have huge problems with him, but it doesn’t blind me or contort my brain to the point where Bush/Cheney are Bloefeld-like characters. Although many of these posters are obviously intelligent, they are so blinded by hate that brains stop working. As a point of illustration, I think Icarus is a liar. No…I…uh…I can’t give you an example of him actually lying, no. It seems if you turn out to be wrong they very easily “know” what knowledge you had in your head at that moment in time. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/38 "2005-06-30T04:45:35Z")
Eh, I don’t know about all that. I just find it absolutely amazing that anyone can still be shocked at a politician’s dishonesty. Any politician. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Highwayman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Highwayman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Highwayman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/39 "2005-06-30T04:51:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yes, because no one can point to a list (arch) of supposed lies. What many people are quick to call lies are, in fact, things the administration was wrong about. For instance, there may not be WMDs in Iraq but that doesn’t mean anyone lied. At the time, England, France, Russia, the U.N., and others all believed Iraq had them. Even Michael Moore in one interview said, “Of course he had them, we gave them to him.” So Clinton didn’t lie, he was just “wrong” about not having sexual relations with that woman? He forgot about it right? Do you really believe what you are shovelling? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408/40 "2005-06-30T04:54:26Z")
Why did the POTUS give the Medal of Honor to George Tenet when he gave Dick Cheney all of this wrong information that led to a war in Iraq? Why is the Iraqi source of much of this “misinformation” now part of the new Iraqi government? Why was Colin Powell better informed than Dick Cheney? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-free-pass-on-lying/310408.md?page=3)