# Dick Cheney on Meet The Press **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801 "2003-03-16T16:46:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![nisosbar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@nisosbar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nisosbar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/21 "2003-03-16T23:26:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jshore \* > \*\*Just for the hell of it, could you come up with a few wars that this could not be used to justify? With this logic, clearly India should attack Pakistan, Pakistan should attack India, N. Korea should lob whatever nukes it has or develops at the U.S. In fact, the advantage of all of these scenarios is that they have a more immediate connection between the pre-emptor and the threat than the connection between 9/11 and Iraq. > > God, it’s scary that we have the Vice-President of our nation using this sort of logic! I just hope the world survives until these people can be thrown out of power. \*\* Some people think that the Pakistan/India scenario you describe will come to fruition, God forbid, unless they agree to talks, which India has refused over and over. Is it a good idea? No more than it was when it was the USA/Soviet Union. N. Korea is a problem which we will deal with after Iraq. Iran’s theocracy is probably not far behind. What’s scary is the challenging world in which we exist today because of failures of past administrations to successfully meet the challenges of their own times. These threats have to be addressed now. ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/22 "2003-03-16T23:27:57Z")
Many governments around the world have supported terrorists in one form or another. However supplying them with WMD especially for use against the US is another thing altogether. There is not much reason to believe Saddam will do this **unless** Iraq is invaded and he has nothing to lose. ---
**Author:** ![AvidReader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@AvidReader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AvidReader)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/23 "2003-03-16T23:52:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jshore \* > \*\*Just for the hell of it, could you come up with a few wars that this could not be used to justify? > > God, it’s scary that we have the Vice-President of our nation using this sort of logic! \*\* It is scary. And depressing. Consider: Next to nothing is being done in Washington because of this fanatical focus on Iraq. Domestically our economy is faltering. Internationally we have become the “bully on the block” substituting arrogance and adolescent threats and intimidation for reasoned diplomacy. Xenophobia. chauvinism and jingoism is rampant. The simplistic attitude of our government towards other nations (we’re good; anyone against us is bad) would be laughable if it was’nt so bone jarringly frightening. As is the view of hawks towards fellow Americans against the war. To wit: the government is good; anyone questioning it’s motives/directives is unpatriotic. Now, **that** is terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/24 "2003-03-17T00:22:45Z")
Just the sort of thing that would be said by somebody who doesn’t support our troops. (Is there a parallel term to “Godwin” for such “Why do you hate America so much?” crapola?) ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/25 "2003-03-17T04:00:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nisosbar \* > \*\* N. Korea is a problem which we will deal with after Iraq. Iran’s theocracy is probably not far behind. > > What’s scary is the challenging world in which we exist today because of failures of past administrations to successfully meet the challenges of their own times. These threats have to be addressed now. \*\* What’s scarier is an administration with absolutely no idea what the terms ‘diplomacy’ and ‘foreign relations’ mean. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nisosbar \* > \*\* N. Korea is a problem which we will deal with after Iraq. Iran’s theocracy is probably not far behind. > \*\* Judging by this administration’s capabilities, this means we’ll attack North Korea next, then Iran. Great. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/26 "2003-03-17T12:00:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CyberPundit \* > \*\*So overall an invasion makes another 9-11 more likely not less. \*\* I disagree **CyberPundit** - although I would qualify this post with the observation that I enjoy your posts in general. You write in a thoroughly resonable manner I have to say. But I disagree with the above statement for the following reason… the Bali Bombing proved inarguably that Islamic terrorism has spread far and wide - and worse yet - is thoroughly autonomous now - regardless of what “cadre” or “team name” it’s committed under. It’s my belief that incidents such as 9/11 and the Bali Bombing and the various bombings in the Phillippines will continue regardless of whether an invasion takes place or not. Such is the nature of indoctrination which has emanated from the “Wahabbist” school of “Islamic Superiority” over the last century. I would also add that countries such as Australia, which have openly supported the USA in the last 2 years on the “War on Terror” have very much put themselves in the “cross hairs” of the Islamic Extremists, and it’s a very sad thing indeed. Nonetheless, occasionally in life, we have to put our principles on the line, and this is one of those moments in time. Iraq, ironically, is quite a “high profile diversion”… it seems to me that the desire by Islamic Extremists, due to the dreadful indoctrination by the afore mentiond Wahabbist school of Clerics, will continue to strike out at the innocent for quite some time yet, until their positions of influence are irrevocably undermined. Worse yet, I fear that 9/11 was merely the tip of an iceberg. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/27 "2003-03-17T12:31:59Z")
May I qualify something please… In my above post where I mentioned “having to put our principles on the line”, I was referring specifically to Australia’s efforts to help and aid the USA in the “War on Terror”. As for my perceptions of the OP? It would be improper for a non American to pass judgement on the Vice President of the USA. This is something I have complete faith that my American friends on this board are capable of debating without any input from me! 😃 I would respectfully suggest however that certain aspects of the PR campaign thus far have been handled rather poorly. Down here in Australia, the general consensus, as it seems to me, is that Secretary of State Colin Powell is the man. He’s the guy who everybody agrees “speaks from the heart” and does so with a judicious sense of gravitas. And most importantly, he seems to be a guy who the world can trust. ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/28 "2003-03-17T13:08:54Z")
_“But I disagree with the above statement for the following reason… the Bali Bombing proved inarguably that Islamic terrorism has spread far and wide - and worse yet - is thoroughly autonomous now - regardless of what “cadre” or “team name” it’s committed under.”_ And how exactly is invading Iraq going to prevent what happened in Bali from happening again? ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/29 "2003-03-17T13:28:56Z")
**Mandelstam** , my position is that militant Islamic Extremism is independant of Iraq. It’s an improper assumption on your part to argue that if believe that terrorism incidents will continue regardless of an invasion of Iraq, that by extension, that I ALSO believe an invasion of Iraq will cure the phenomonon of militant Islamic Extremism. I didn’t say that earlier, and I’m not saying that now. Please, I request, please don’t put words in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/30 "2003-03-17T13:44:25Z")
**Boo** : _“…my position is that militant Islamic Extremism is independant of Iraq.”_ Precisely. That is the position of most rightheaded people–though it is a position that the Bush administration has been trying (unsuccessfully) to confuse for months now. _“Please, I request, please don’t put words in my mouth.”_ I did not put words in your mouth. I asked you a simple question. You recognize that there’s no connection between Iraq and militant Islamic terrorism, and you recognize that the latter is the real danger. But you continue to hold–for reasons as yet unexplained by yourself–that an Iraq invasion will make some kind of positive contribution to the “War on Terror.” And you explicitly reject the positon made by many (including now the US’s own intelligence agencies) that war will make it easier to recruit Islamic terrorists. By all means put words in your own mouth and explain the coherence of your position. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/31 "2003-03-17T13:56:26Z")
That’s bullshit **Mandelstam**. Pure bullshit. On two counts their you’ve accused me of saying things which I have not said. Moreover, in thread upon thread on this messageboard in the last month, I have described a potential war in Iraq as ACTUALLY being a “punch in the guts” to the TRUE “War on Terror”. Any reasonable poster on this postboard will have seen such posts and will testify to same. Accordingly, may I invite you once again read my second post in this thread, where to be safe from people like yourself, I voluntarily added a qualifier to my initial post. I challenge you outright now to quote me to back up your assertions, failing which - this gets reported bucko. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/32 "2003-03-17T14:04:40Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Boo Boo Foo_ > **my position is that militant Islamic Extremism is independant of Iraq.** Surely you’d concede that a US-led attack on an Arabic and Islamic country is likely to _increase_ support for, and recruitment to, militant Islamic extremist groups? ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/33 "2003-03-17T14:11:54Z")
**jjimm** , certainly the calls to do so within militant Islamic groups will increase - without doubt. Perhaps, the take up rate is already saturated… who knows. But it’s not unreasonable to assume that the sheer volume of “calls to arms” will go through the roof, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/34 "2003-03-17T14:22:26Z")
**Boo** , I’ll let **jjimm** take over, as I’ve got to to work and I’m hard-pressed to see why you’re so insistent that your own stated positions are being misrepresented. You “disagreed” with **CyberPundit** ’s quoted statement, and I queried you on what followed. If elsewhere on these Boards you’ve made arguments that point to the illogic of war with Iraq, more power to you. Suffice it to say that your statements in _this_ thread are, at best, confusing. I’m not sure where you intend to “report” me, but I suspect I’ll survive the experience. 'Til then, g’day. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/35 "2003-03-17T14:23:37Z")
If we had known about 9/11 beforehand we wouldn’t have had to bomb anybody, we could have just had a few feds hanging out at the airports waiting to relieve a few guys of their box cutters. Problem solved. Crisis averted. Did Slippery Dick offer any evidence that iraq has any tention or even ability to attack the US? ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801/36 "2003-03-17T14:42:28Z")
**Mandelstam** , in my defence, I would point out that my “insistence that you’re putting words in my mouth” is in direct proportion to **your** insistance that my earlier posts implied things which I patently didn’t intend. Now, I appreciate it’s your right, or any of our fellow Dopers rights to “interpret” what I said and then paraphrase that interpretation in further debate. Fine… don’t have a problem with that at all. But it’s also my right to tell you that you’re trying to shag the wrong pony if you’ve got it wrong. 😉 Look, I’m just a normal 40 year old guy in Australia who’s trying to be as objective as possible and trying to make sense out of all of this mess. Most importantly, I’m trying to be reasonable at all times. Nonetheless, some of your interpretations, and the confusion you felt, were, in my considered opinion, caused far more by you you hearing what you wanted to hear rather than what I actually said. But that’s cool - we’re all human. Just rest assured, if I wanna say something, I’m not a shrinking violet. I’m not afraid to say it if I think it needs to be said. No hard feelings though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-on-meet-the-press/161801.md?page=1)