# Dick Cheney you worthless mound of excrement **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157 "2005-05-31T01:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/181 "2005-06-03T19:44:28Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Do you consider being intimidated by dogs, being given a Bible instead of a Koran, being draped in an Israeli flag or being interviewed by a female officer in a bra torture? Hypothetical: If we somehow knew that someone was definitely guilty of terrorist activities and that the above tactics had been found to extract actionable intelligence in the past, would you advocate their use? These questions aren’t rhetorical, I would really like an answer. 1. Intimidated by dogs: Yes. Have you ever had a slavering dog within inches of your throat, going wild with eagerness to rip you to shreds? Terrorizing a person who’s helpless to escape or fight back with the imminent prospect of being savaged by a predator is IMO mental torture. 2. Bible/Koran: Yes. Give a fundamentalist American Christian POW a Koran when he asks for a Bible. While you’re at it, treat a Bible contemptuously. Mock the symbols he holds dear and demand he worship symbols of what he despises as Satan’s work. This is mental torture. 3. Draped in flag: Yes. This is again mental torture. Being enveloped in the symbol of something one loathes as wholeheartedly as fanatic Muslims hate Israel is psychological abuse. 4. Female interrogator: More mental torture by degradation – especially since you left out the part about the woman daubing the prisoner with what she asserted was menstrual blood. To someone from a culture which regards any contact with a menstruating woman as pollution, that’s a vicious psychological assault. Flaunting female nudity before a man from a culture obsessed with female purity, indeed demanding that he interact with, respond to questions from, obey a woman partly undressed? Mental torture in my book. 5. Use of such tactics? No. As others have pointed out in threads discussing the abuse of American-help prisoners, intelligence obtained through torture is highly suspect. The more one applies the screws, the likelier the prisoner is to say anything to make it stop, anything that seems to satisfy the interrogators, whether it’s true or not. The torture doesn’t have to be physical to be abusive and beyond the pale. Hey, I bet I could torture you just by showing you pictures. Pictures, yeh – let’s take someone you hold dear and I’ll show you (Photoshopped if necessary, or real-life if possible) pictures of that person being gang-raped, thrown in shit, and so forth. But I never touched you! Never left a mark on you! So how could you call that torture, eh? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/182 "2005-06-03T19:47:08Z")
:smack: That’s “American- **held** prisoners”. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/183 "2005-06-03T20:10:04Z")
**Fush** , you plan on addressing my points? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/184 "2005-06-03T22:46:15Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > This thread has gone WAY beyond “revulsion at allegations.” Most involved here have already found the US guilty. Well, the ball is in the government’s court. If the allegations are false, open up the facilities to international, neutral inspection. Nothing like the light of day shone on something to expose any problems. The alternative, of course, is accusing any organization that dares to criticize torture of being anti-American. > [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > The only big deal about the hostage crisis was your friend Carter being too much of a pussy to do anything about it. I don’t have a problem with the treatment of the hostages. Yes, of course. No problem whatsoever with US territory being invaded, US citizens illegally held and abused. None whatsoever. :rolleyes: Wasn’t it under the Carter Administration that a rescue mission was launched? [Oh, yes, so it was.](http://www.historychannel.com/speeches/archive/speech_42.html) > [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Would you not call it torture if they were? You really don’t get it do you? The whole point of the way these people are being kept is that the government denies these people are POWs. You then saying this is an acceptable way to treat POWs (which it clearly would not be) is utterly irrelevant. What is being done is being done to uncharged, unconvicted individuals. > [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Do you consider being intimidated by dogs, being given a Bible instead of a Koran, being draped in an Israeli flag or being interviewed by a female officer in a bra torture? Hypothetical: If we somehow knew that someone was definitely guilty of terrorist activities and that the above tactics had been found to extract actionable intelligence in the past, would you advocate their use? These questions aren’t rhetorical, I would really like an answer. Yes. I certainly include the use of attack dogs as torture. I include deliberate mental degradation designed to dehumanize an individual as torture. I’m not answering the last question because it is absolutely irrelevant. These AREN’T people who are definitely guilty of terrorist activities in the past. These also AREN’T techniques that have been found toextract actionable intelligence in the past. I’ll ask you to justify your utterly ridiculous point from before again - if we know who the guilty ones are, and these are the only ones being tortured, then why on earth are we keeping thousands of others locked up in camps? How long are you willing to try them, and just how far down the line are you willing to go? What if executing one in 10 of the ‘guilty’ ones without trial would get the rest to talk? What if executing one in 10 of the ‘innocent’ ones would have that effect? Killing the families/raping the daughters of those you want information from? If we are playing the stupid ass hypothetical game, where do you draw the line? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/185 "2005-06-03T23:30:29Z")
> [@](#): > > The only big deal about the hostage crisis was your friend Carter being too much of a pussy to do anything about it. I don’t have a problem with the treatment of the hostages. And somehow magically, in the middle of his inaugural speech, President Reagan was able to free the hostages? :rolleyes: (I do remember that that is when their release was announced.) Thanks, **villa**. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/186 "2005-06-03T23:53:27Z")
Just so, friend **Zoe**. Our enemies realized at that moment, the Ascension of St.Ronnie of Bakersfield, that the game was up. Thier primary allies, the liberal activist judges, were dependent on the feckless indifference and jackboot tyranny of the Carter administration. The rise of real Americanism would quickly render them mewling and helpless before our power. (You know, Gorbachev submitted his application for a Green Card that very day. True fact.) It was but the first of a series of tributes laid at his feet, and the Shining Citadel on the Hill. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/187 "2005-06-04T01:13:58Z")
Well, once again the corrupt venality of the liberal tedia is exposed. The flushing of the Koran stuff is all hooey! Here’s that facts, straight from the horse’s…from the horse. [http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Guantanamo\_Detainees](http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Guantanamo_Detainees) > [@](#): > > The Pentagon on Friday released new details about mishandling of the Quran at the Guantanamo Bay prison for terror suspects, confirming that a soldier deliberately kicked the Muslim holy book and that an interrogator stepped on a Quran and was later fired for “a pattern of unacceptable behavior.” In other confirmed incidents, water balloons thrown by prison guards caused an unspecified number of Qurans to get wet; a guard’s urine came through an air vent and splashed on a detainee and his Quran; and in a confirmed but ambiguous case a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Quran. Note well! Kicking, stepping upon, peeing upon and scrawling obsenities…but not _one word_ about flushing! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/188 "2005-06-04T01:31:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Note well! Kicking, stepping upon, peeing upon and scrawling obsenities…but not _one word_ about flushing! We swear to God, urinating on the Qur’an was an accident. The _prisoner_ was the actual target. The book was just a splashback. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/189 "2005-06-04T01:41:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, once again the corrupt venality of the liberal tedia is exposed. The flushing of the Koran stuff is all hooey! Here’s that facts, straight from the horse’s…from the horse. > > [http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Guantanamo\_Detainees](http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Guantanamo_Detainees) > > Note well! Kicking, stepping upon, peeing upon and scrawling obsenities…but not _one word_ about flushing! Only thing flushing is our credibilty going down the crapper even further. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/190 "2005-06-04T01:48:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > We swear to God, urinating on the Qur’an was an accident. The _prisoner_ was the actual target. There you go, leaping to conclusions. Nowhere does the article say that anyone peed on anything: “a guard’s urine came through an air vent.” Camp X-Ray was built on the QT, so you’ve got to expect a few minor plumbing irregularities. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/191 "2005-06-04T02:29:06Z")
Don’t you just love the judicious use of the passive voice. Something happened, but nothing was done. Like a small boy answers to the presence of smashed lamps:“It broke.” But “building on the QT” confuses me. Was Camp X-Ray built in stealth? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/192 "2005-06-04T02:31:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But “building on the QT” confuses me. Was Camp X-Ray built in stealth? Ninja contractors. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/193 "2005-06-04T03:07:57Z")
They installed a Klingon cloaking device on the roof. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/194 "2005-06-04T03:44:34Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > They installed a Klingon cloaking device on the roof. That probably explains why there have been so many embarrassing revelations. [sub][geek] _Romulans_ have cloakng devices; Klingons do not. [/geek][/sub] ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/195 "2005-06-04T03:46:02Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > That probably explains why there have been so many embarrassing revelations. > > [sub][geek] _Romulans_ have cloakng devices; Klingons do not. [/geek][/sub] Klingons do, too. They buy them from the Romulans, but they do have them… ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/196 "2005-06-04T04:02:07Z")
Just because we haven’t found the Klingon cloaking devices doesn’t mean they aren’t there. Anyway, we never justified our war against the Klingons by claiming they had cloaking devices, just that they had the potential to develop cloaking devices. And the Klingons support terrorism too. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/197 "2005-06-04T04:03:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Klingons do, too. They buy them from the Romulans, but they do have them… [Everything you always wanted to know about cloaking devices!](http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Cloaking_device) Yes, The Klingons have them too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/198 "2005-06-04T04:11:44Z")
Then I stand corected. I guess this means I’m not really a geek. Unless it means I’m an _uninformed_ geek! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/199 "2005-06-04T04:19:28Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Unless it means I’m an _uninformed_ geek! :eek: Some would say that’s better than being a [uniformed geek.](http://www.sosuemelinux.org/Linux_Lunacy_II/p_Is%20this%20the%20official%20GEEK%20uniform.JPG.html) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/200 "2005-06-04T04:25:27Z")
Less talk. More blood wine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157.md?page=11)