# Dick Cheney you worthless mound of excrement **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157 "2005-05-31T01:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/201 "2005-06-04T04:49:56Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Klingons do, too. They buy them from the Romulans, but they do have them… Ha! But that would still make them _Romulan_, not Klingon, forcefields! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/202 "2005-06-04T05:14:07Z")
No, Klingon. They bought it, they have the receipts 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/203 "2005-06-04T06:10:39Z")
Stool softener. Lots of it. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/204 "2005-06-04T14:04:45Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I’m not answering the last question because it is absolutely irrelevant. How did I know you wouldn’t answer this question? Because you assume everything is intended as fuel for an argument rather than an attempt to understand those with different opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/205 "2005-06-04T16:27:32Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Do you consider being intimidated by dogs, being given a Bible instead of a Koran, being draped in an Israeli flag or being interviewed by a female officer in a bra torture? **Yes**. Frankly, apart from the dogs, none of them would be torture if you did it to me. But from what I have read and understood, all of them are torture when done to the persons to whom they in fact did it. > [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Hypothetical: If we somehow knew that someone was definitely guilty of terrorist activities and that the above tactics had been found to extract actionable intelligence in the past, would you advocate their use? **No**. First of all, I am going to ignore the false premise in your question. The correct question is, which methods of enforcement really really _are_ proven to catch terrorists, extract actionable intelligence, and spare innocents? In addition to what others have said, there is this phenomenon called [Interrogator’s Fallacy](http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rajm/interro.htm). The types of torture mentioned in your post seem to be especially prone to it. What it means is that you are **less** likely to catch real terrorists and more likely to catch innocents with methods like that. Which is exactly what you can see happening in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/206 "2005-06-04T19:16:54Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > How did I know you wouldn’t answer this question? Because you assume everything is intended as fuel for an argument rather than an attempt to understand those with different opinions. OK, let’s play your silly game. > [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Hypothetical: If we somehow knew that someone was definitely guilty of terrorist activities and that the above tactics had been found to extract actionable intelligence in the past, would you advocate their use? You simply have not given enough information to give an answer to this. What intelligence would be extracted? What would the result of such intelligence be? Would the torture be secret or public? Would it in effect recruit more members to the terrorist cause? See, even if we accept your utterly absurd assumptions (knew was definitely guilty, knew tactics had extracted actionable intelligence in the past) we still don’t have an answerable question. "Actionable intelligence’ is way too amorphous a term. Happy now? Now it is your turn to answer the hypothetical, similarly vague (and deliberately so) that I put to you. How far are you willing to go? Pissing on the constitution in the name of saving the Nation just leaves you with smelly, smudged, soaked piece of paper, and a much much diminished Nation. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/207 "2005-06-04T22:54:28Z")
According to [this article](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1066901-2,00.html) in _Time_ magazine, the civilian head of intelligence at Guantanamo admitted that the majority of detainees are no longer of much intelligence value. The article had some even more interesting information: In the last three years, 234 detainees have been permitted to leave Guantanamo. The vast majority of those released were deemed to be “no longer a threat” or of any intelligence value. And this: > [@](#): > > Since the U.S. started the review tribunals last fall, about 40 detainees have been or will be freed because **they were found not to be enemy combatants after all.** Meanwhile, more on the Michael Jackson case and the runaway bride from the “liberal press.” ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/208 "2005-06-04T23:04:02Z")
Want a reliable source on torture at Gitmo, but can’t trust those foreigners? > [@](#): > > It may have been a measure of how detainees are treated that when Army Specialist Sean Baker played the role of an inmate in a 2003 training exercise, he says he was beaten so badly by MPs, **who did not know he was one of them** , he now has seizures. The Army is investigating the incident, and Baker has filed suit against the government, seeking damages for his injuries. > [@](#): > > According to just-released memos, [FBI] agents reported seeing captives shackled in a fetal position for 24 hours without food or water and left in their own excrement, another gagged with duct tape that covered much of his head and another who had torn out his hair after being chained all night in a hot room. [(same _Time_ magazine article)](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1066901-2,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/209 "2005-06-05T14:53:15Z")
According to some people though, that’s peachy keen. Nevermind that it goes against everything WE are supposed to be about. Never mind that we have an admission now that these victims “have no intelligence value”. Is that the new code phrase for Innocent? We need some independent “inspector general” sort of person to join with the FBI and CID, and start prosecuting the torturers AND the people who gave the orders. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157/210 "2005-06-10T19:26:08Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, > > And [Dr Deth](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=3260699) does, at least when they’re talking about Palestinian groups: > So there are quite a lot of people around here who certainly can’t be classified as “leftist” or “anti-American” who appear quite prepared to take Amnesty International seriously. > > If we’re willing to “trust AI for accuracy” when they’re saying bad things about Saddam Hussein or the Sandinistas, where do we get off suddenly treating them as a complete joke just because they’re saying some bad things about us? Well, yes, I take them seriously. But I don’t trust them. They have done some good things, and opened some eyes, but they are- IMHO- highly biased. Here’s the thing- if I find a GOP site that says “GWB was wrong”, then it’s clear to me that they are likely right about THAT-even if I don’t give that site any credance as far as pro-GOP stuff goes. So- I don’t ignore AI. I listen to them. But their obvious bias requires some critical listening and quite a few grains of salt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheney-you-worthless-mound-of-excrement/306157.md?page=10)