# Dick Cheney's Bloodlust **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326 "2004-01-27T20:57:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/41 "2004-01-28T15:55:26Z")
If Cheney had brought half the tunnel visioned zeal to the hunt as has been demonstrated here, there’d be nary a pheasant or duck left in PA. I might not hunt in the same manner, but then my schedule and opportunities differ more than a little from his. Were this to be anyone else, nobody would give a partisan’d damn. And **Aldebaran** and **Grumple Grommit** , I can’t help but picture you two sitting through a lot of green lights while the traffic piles up behind you. “Blasting Iraqi children”? Get lucid. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/42 "2004-01-28T17:11:51Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Actually, Lib, you hit the nail on the head with that one, though completely by accident. The fox hunting of “Tally-Ho!” is an upper-crust blood “sport” and isn’t considered “hunting” by REAL hunters any more than Mr Cheney’s live-bird skeet shoot is. It wasn’t an accident. And everyone knows that No True Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/43 "2004-01-28T17:59:20Z")
Then I apologize for my affrontry, sir. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/44 "2004-01-28T19:01:25Z")
Okay. Time for someone who actually knows something about this form of hunting to chime in. I’ve participated in hunts at private clubs where pheasants are hatched and raised for just this purpose. It would seem that the format the Cheney party engaged might be a little bit different than my experience, but I think my observations are still valid. When I did this kind of thing, and it’s been six or more years since I have, we’d tell the club manager how many birds we wanted released. They’d net the things (both cocks and hens - it is illegal to shoot hens in the wild) out of their pens and take them to a large field (12 to 25 acres) and release them at random points. After that was done, we’d head for the field with our guide and his dog(s). From that point, the hunt was little different than hunting in the wild. Except that we knew for sure that there were indeed pheasants in this particular field. That’s not always the case in a wild hunt. The birds released were in no physical way different from any that you’d encounter in the wild; they’re of the same size range and have the same flight, running and camoflauge abilities. They are not “overstuffed and barely able to fly.” They have pretty much the same chance that birds in the wild have. Except that most of those surviving the hunt will die anyway within a week. Cage raised pheasants don’t have the fear fo predators, or the feeding instincts, that wild birds have. The guides have always told me that they won’t last long on their own; they quickly become part of the food chain. I’ll also note that hunting in this manner is ungodly expensive. The fees including the bird charge, the guide and dog fees, and the cleaning were generally in the $25 to $30 per bird range - plus tip for the guide; I expect it’s more than that now. When I did this we generally had only 4 birds per hunter released and they’d give us about 3 or 4 hours to hunt. If you didn’t bag your birds in that period, too bad; they’re gone but you paid for 'em anyway. I dunno exactly what Cheney’s hunt was like, but I doubt it was too much different than my experiences - with the exception of quantity. I hunted this way at several different clubs and it’s always the same, except for insignificant details. That’s why I expect Cheney’s hunt was similar. Now, granted, 500 birds is a huge number, but as noted in the linked articles, it’s all being used for food (well, the 80% of 'em that got shot; the others are gonna starve to death and become part of the food chain anyway), so I don’t see what the gripe is. I dunno what to make of the accusations of bloodlust. 500 birds seems excessive to **me** for a morning of sport, but what do I know? I’m not gonna make any value judgments over the man’s hobby. Anyway, you guys seem more upset about Cheney’s participation in this thing than any of the other nine guys, so I’m guessing it more partisan crap. This quote is from the article linked by **Homebrew:** > [@](#): > > These birds were just planted right in front of this group of hunters. It was a bloodbath and it was a blaze of shotgun fire," said senior vice president [of The Humane Society] Wayne Pacelle. This is not in any way descriptive of the hunts like this in which I have participated. I’m not sure what Mr. Pacelle knows about Cheney’s particular hunt that is different than my experience, but my bet is his remarks are made from ignorance and he has no idea what actually transpired at Rolling Rock. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/45 "2004-01-28T20:25:48Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Ferrous > > Excuse my ass. Heh. **FabioClone** beat me to it. > [@](#): > > The OP said that the birds were overstuffed and barely able to fly. That, to me, implies that they didn’t have a fighting chance. Yes, and the OP also said, implicitly in his first post and explicitly in his second, that the birds themselves were not the point. I guess you missed that part. > [@](#): > > And then there began a chorus about the slaughtering. You were the first to raise the issue about amateur versus professional, which is silly since the employees might themselves be hunters and/or enjoy their job slaughtering domesticated critters. That’s right, I brought it up in response to your objection regarding animals killed in slaughterhouses and such. Which was irrelevant, bacause no one, as far as I can tell, was saying “Ooh, the poor birdies!” They’re asking what kind of sicko gets his rocks off killing a truckload of birds, simply for the sake of killing them. And frankly, I have no idea what percentage of slaughterhouse employees really love their job, and enjoy killing animals in their tens of thousands. I doubt it’s a large percentage, but I’m sure there are some—and I’d be a bit creeped out by them as well. **Uncle Beer** , > [@](#): > > Anyway, you guys seem more upset about Cheney’s participation in this thing than any of the other nine guys, so I’m guessing it more partisan crap. I can’t speak for any one else, but I think the other nine guys are a bit weird as well. But they’re not VP. A psychopath with power is a lot more worrisome than one without. But I’d feel essentially the same way if it were, say, John Kerry doing the “hunting.” (And yes, I know “psychopath” is a bit OTT, but I’ve already used “creepy”,“weird” and “sicko”, and I’m running low on synonyms here.) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/46 "2004-01-28T21:27:47Z")
Ferrous I respect you a great deal, but honestly — creepy, weird, sicko, psychopath. All that for this? You’ve left nothing credibility-wise when you decide to attack something really bad. The next person you describe as psycho might just be, for all I know, someone who eats more peanuts than you do. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/47 "2004-01-28T21:46:07Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Ferrous > > I respect you a great deal, but honestly — creepy, weird, sicko, psychopath. All that for this? You’ve left nothing credibility-wise when you decide to attack something really bad. The next person you describe as psycho might just be, for all I know, someone who eats more peanuts than you do. Well, I did admit that the “psychopath” part was pushing it. It _is_ creepy though, IMO. But really, I’m not that upset over this. I only posted because I found your animal-rights strawman irritating. Seriously though, don’t you find it a little off-putting that someone would find this entertaining? Shooting 70 pheasants and an undisclosed number of ducks in one day? Does that really seem like a normal, healthy activity? I’ve got no problem with hunting, but in this case it seems that a difference in degree becomes a difference in kind. And don’t tell me the fact that he gave the birds to a food bank makes any difference. If Cheney was concerned with feeding the poor, I can think of a couple of ways the Vice President of the United States (not to mention a millionaire) could make a much bigger difference than that. Anyway, you’re right that it isn’t a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. Just the thing that caught my attention at the time. (“Ooh, shiny…”) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/48 "2004-01-28T21:50:56Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > They have pretty much the same chance that birds in the wild have. Except that most of those surviving the hunt will die anyway within a week. Cage raised pheasants don’t have the fear fo predators, or the feeding instincts, that wild birds have. The guides have always told me that they won’t last long on their own; they quickly become part of the food chain. So these birds have not developed the wiliness and intelligence that allowed their completely wild brothers to survive to adulthood? As your experience showed, three or four in a morning, even of these limited birds, is good hunting. Cheney shot seventy birds between, say, 8:00AM and noon, or one every three and a half minutes, and his party was bagging them at a rate of one every 35 seconds. It sounds like the birds were tripping over each other in the field and it still sounds like Cheney et al were just a few steps removed from plugging a barnyard full of chickens. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/49 "2004-01-29T04:04:02Z")
One can shrug off the existence of a few sickos who aren’t actually shooting _people_, but there are apparently enough around to support this operation as a going business. That worries me almost as much as one of them being in a decisionmaking role about many people’s lives. **Unc** , you should know that this selective claim not to be making value judgments is itself a value judgment. And try to \*read \* the damn link before “explaining” it next time, willya? ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/50 "2004-01-29T04:57:24Z")
> [@BF](#): > > By comparison, dove hunting in Argentina, Venezuela, and **Uruguay** ; it’s not unusual for one shooter to down 500 birds a day, all of which go to feed the local populace. Not that I don´t belive you; but being the case that I live here and I´ve never heard of such hunting extravaganzas I´d appreciate a cite. Besides, a pigeon weights what? 300/400 grams? multiplied by 500 that is up to 150/200 kilograms of dead birds on a sack; I can´t picture a hunter hauling that around. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/51 "2004-01-29T06:17:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > One can shrug off the existence of a few sickos who aren’t actually shooting _people_, but there are apparently enough around to support this operation as a going business. That worries me almost as much as one of them being in a decisionmaking role about many people’s lives. One can hope that most of their clients are hunters like **Uncle Beer** , guys who buy maybe four or so birds at a time. Probably that sort of wholesale kill-fest is the exception, rather than the rule. I hope. … And now, fun with statistics: Something else that occured to me, regarding Cheney and the other nine guys: If 10 guys killed 417 birds, that makes an average of 41.7 birds per man. So Dick, at 70 birds, is 60% more bloodthirsty than the average mass-pheasant-slaughterer. (Maybe he should use that as a campaign slogan.😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/52 "2004-01-29T06:40:05Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Um, sure. He’s not a vegetarian. After reading the OP and **Libertarian** ’s post, from now on I’ll picture Cheney as Elmer Fudd: “I’m sorry, fellas, but I’m a vegetarian. I only hunt for the sport.” - Elmer Fudd [http://www.animationusa.com/wb96.html](http://www.animationusa.com/wb96.html) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/53 "2004-01-29T11:57:16Z")
Funny coincidence, though. I already had pictured him as Elmer Fudd. Bush is Wiley Coyote. And John Ashcroft is Daffy Duck. Or Janet Waco. Whichever. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/54 "2004-01-29T12:09:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I had a friend who used to have a summer job on a chicken farm. He said one night he had to wring the necks of 30,000 chickens. Isn’t that a Klingon proverb? “30,000 necks can be wrung in one night, by a running man.” ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/55 "2004-01-29T12:27:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Personally, I picture him dancing naked through a pile of pheasant corpses while “Happy Together” by the Turtles plays and we fade to black. Now there’s an image I’ll be describing to a court-appointed psychiatrist someday. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/56 "2004-01-29T12:59:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Posted by \*\*Dropzone:\*\*\*So these birds have not developed the wiliness and intelligence that allowed their completely wild brothers to survive to adulthood? As your experience showed, three or four in a morning, even of these limited birds, is good hunting. Cheney shot seventy birds between, say, 8:00AM and noon, or one every three and a half minutes, and his party was bagging them at a rate of one every 35 seconds. It sounds like the birds were tripping over each other in the field and it still sounds like Cheney et al were just a few steps removed from plugging a barnyard full of chickens. Yeah, as I said it seems to me like a lot of birds for a morning’s hunt. In fact, after reading several other news stories about this, it appears that Cheney’s hunt wasn’t all that much like my experience. It seems that the birds released in Rolling Rock, were under a net, or series of nets, set up in front of these guys. And then were simply released. The hunters weren’t traipsing around a field behind their dogs trying to flush the birds like we hadda do. At least that’s my understanding of the stories I’ve read - they’re kinda short on the details of what actually occured. If that’s the case though, ugh, that doesn’t sound like something I’d wanna do. It would be more like target practice than hunting. What’s left completely unexplained though, since the stories also seemed to be saying that the dogs we’re merely used to retrieve downed birds, is how they got the birds in the air. I’ve found that without a dog, or when a person actually stumbles over a crouched bird, that most pheasants prefer to run, rather than fly. Flight is their last choice of escaping and you need a dog in their face to get 'em in the air. Hmm. > [@](#): > > \*Posted by \*\*Elvis:\*\*\*Unc, you should know that this selective claim not to be making value judgments is itself a value judgment. And try to read the damn link before “explaining” it next time, willya? Hey looky! It’s an Elvis sighting. Fucker runs away in threads where he’s been proven wrong, because he refuses to admit his mistakes and do the honorable thing, only to surface and make off-topic perosnal snipes in other threads. First, I’m not explaining the damn link you dumbass; I’m relating my personal experience hunting private clubs. Second, I’d ask you to explain that first sentence of yours I quoted, because as usual, it doesn’t make any sense, but I’m not really that interested in what you have to say. I’d prefer you just shut up. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/57 "2004-01-29T16:22:52Z")
I imagine that if Cheney and any of the staff he requires to be available to him, the Secret Service entourage in tow, the support vehicles, the other nine hunters and any tag along media types were to go traipsing across the Pennsylvania landscape on a “traditional” hunt, there’d be a contingent moaning about how he’s single handedly destroying the state’s wilderness as well. I wonder if ideology is driving folks sentiments on this issue seeing as how this hunting club has been in operation for a number of years, as have many others just like it visited annually by thousands, and yet the cry isn’t raised until Dick is involved. I’ve shot dozens of dove in a single day before. I guess that has some bearing on how if in office I’d handle foreign policy, huh? ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/58 "2004-01-29T16:25:34Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Not that I don´t belive you; but being the case that I live here and I´ve never heard of such hunting extravaganzas I´d appreciate a cite. > Besides, a pigeon weights what? 300/400 grams? multiplied by 500 that is up to 150/200 kilograms of dead birds on a sack; I can´t picture a hunter hauling that around. Glad to be of service. Here’s a few. [Uruguay One](http://www.gssafaris.com/hunt_uruguay_vizcaino.html) [Uruquay Two](http://www.huntingmag.com/small_game/dove_0924/) [Argentina](http://www.dovehunting.us/) [Venezuela](http://canventours.com/ventours.htm) As for hauling 'em around, that’s what the gun bearers and beaters are for. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/59 "2004-01-29T17:25:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Dove hunting: Season is all year long and no limit Has anybody mentioned to them that is how we solved our nasty Passenger Pigeon infestation? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326/60 "2004-01-29T21:00:22Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Funny coincidence, though. I already had pictured him as Elmer Fudd. [So does Mark Fiore](http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0404/fiore.php) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-cheneys-bloodlust/226326.md?page=4)