# Dick Durbin says sorry - will those who supported his comments say sorry too? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275 "2005-06-21T23:57:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/301 "2005-06-24T19:47:29Z")
OH MY GOD! WOULD YOU PEOPLE PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP! This horse has been beaten into a damp spot on the ground. If you wish to continue this amazingly stupid and pointless back and forth please have the courtesy to take it to email. And I realize the irony of me using the word “courtesy” but none of you are named Miss Manners, either. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/302 "2005-06-24T19:52:25Z")
Sure, but tell us how you really feel. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/303 "2005-06-24T20:48:30Z")
**Finn** : Would you please stop forcing \*\*dropzone \*\*from openning this thread!!! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/304 "2005-06-24T21:24:46Z")
Too Late! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/305 "2005-06-24T21:55:19Z")
The thread police, they live inside of my head… ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/306 "2005-06-24T22:24:31Z")
In the article I linked too, the smoking guy saud it was likely that these were taken from recordings. Later, someone else talked about how they were aware that there was tapes. That person was newcrasher, who has now [admitted to being a troll.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6298782). While it still find it likely there were destroyed tapes, I do not think it is a sure thing. That does not make Elvis wrong, just unproven. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/307 "2005-06-24T22:40:19Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > That does not make Elvis wrong, just unproven. wrong. It makes **Elvis** wrong when he asserts a quote that can’t be verified. Do I think Bill said something like that? sure. can I prove it? hell no. Would I assert that he **had** said it? no. But if I goofed and said “he said suck and suck” instead of "he seemed to have said something like ‘suck and suck’’ " when called on it, I would immediately back off the assertion of an unprovable and go with the characterization which we could then reasonably discuss. what I wouldn’t do is continue to hand wave it away as if I hadn’t said something was flat out true, that I couldn’t prove. It’s idiotic. **milroyj** did the same thing wrt Teddy K - he’d always post that Teddy was a drunken murderer, and hand wave requests to support that allegation away. We can suspect that Teddy was drunk at the time of the death, but circumstances prevent us from being able to assert it’s truth. a distinction lost on **milroyj** and apparently also **Elvis** in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/308 "2005-06-24T22:43:17Z")
I don’t believe he is lying. However, while I can easily prove it one way or another, I will not read evey! damn! page! of the smoking gun report about vibrators, and O’Reily. Normally, I would call myself a coward for this, but you guys used up all the brain-bleach. I am withholding judgement, for now. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/309 "2005-06-24T22:57:36Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I don’t believe he is lying. However, while I can easily prove it one way or another, I will not read evey! damn! page! of the smoking gun report about vibrators, and O’Reily. Normally, I would call myself a coward for this, but you guys used up all the brain-bleach. I am withholding judgement, for now. come here so I can smack you. the **issue isn’t** does the Smoking Gun transcipts have a quote of him saying whatever the fuck it was. the **issue is** - can we take that as **proof** that was what was said? there are no audio tapes available (anymore, if there ever was) - and at least one poster thought that **Elvis** was asserting that there were audio tapes available. the Smoking Gun has a copy of a written document that is _suggestive_ of the concept that: A. the phone calls were taped. B. Some one transcibed the content of the tape. the document is part of a case filing in a civil action which never went to trial. Is that suggestive? you bet. But since it never went to trial, no one has sworn there were tapes or that they transcibed them acurately etc etc etc. Yes, there was a settlement. and in many cases, that may also suggest the veracity of the claim. It also can suggest that the person/entity being sued found it to be less of a cost to simply settle (and we don’t know for how much) than to go through the bother/expense/emabarrasment of a trial. yes, public statements of Bills are _suggestive_ that he settled 'cause the tapes were pretty accurate/ But - can it be used as **proof** that he said these things, No, not in my eyes, nor in many eyes. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/310 "2005-06-24T22:58:39Z")
> [@wring](#): > > come here so I can smack you. and less some one misinterprets,I mean this in the figurative, virtual sense, not in any way in the literal sense. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/311 "2005-06-24T22:59:37Z")
No worries. I understood what you said. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/312 "2005-06-24T23:07:37Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I don’t believe he is lying. However, while I can easily prove it one way or another, I will not read evey! damn! page! of the smoking gun report about vibrators, and O’Reily. Normally, I would call myself a coward for this, but you guys used up all the brain-bleach. I am withholding judgement, for now. You needn’t prove it one or the other. **Elvis** , who made the claim and presumably can find the page if he in fact did find it in the first place, can valdiate his claim with one click of a mouse. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/313 "2005-06-25T01:31:03Z")
Just a quibble **wring** , we can assume that the tapes from which this was transcribed are valid. Let’s even say that the transcription is 100 percent accurate. Even if that’s true, the transcription still didn’t contain that quote. To put it another way, the Downing Street memo, plus the revelations on the OSP pretty much prove Bush is a demon. Now, I wouldn’t call anybody a liar for pointing that out. Where we do get into that territory is if someone said "Go listen to the tapes where bush says that “I’m a corrupt spawn of satan who lied to get us into war.” " It’s dressing up a story to make it more sensational. Is Bush a corrupt spawn of a cockroach who lied to get us into war? Sure. Did he ever say that right out? No. Is Bill O’Reilly a slimey motherfucker who harassed a woman and might very well enjoy using a vibe on himself? Sure. Did he ever say that right out? No. And not even the woman who sued him claimed as much. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/314 "2005-06-25T01:32:25Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I don’t believe he is lying. However, while I can easily prove it one way or another, I will not read evey! damn! page! of the smoking gun report about vibrators, and O’Reily. I did read every page of it. Nothing remotely like his claim is present there. And poor form to defend him without doing the research yourself. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/315 "2005-06-25T02:33:52Z")
point taken ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/316 "2005-06-25T03:15:45Z")
> [@wring](#): > > come here so I can smack you. > > the **issue isn’t** does the Smoking Gun transcipts have a quote of him saying whatever the fuck it was. > > the **issue is** - can we take that as **proof** that was what was said? there are no audio tapes available (anymore, if there ever was) - and at least one poster thought that **Elvis** was asserting that there were audio tapes available. > > the Smoking Gun has a copy of a written document that is _suggestive_ of the concept that: > A. the phone calls were taped. > B. Some one transcibed the content of the tape. > > the document is part of a case filing in a civil action which never went to trial. Is that suggestive? you bet. But since it never went to trial, no one has sworn there were tapes or that they transcibed them acurately etc etc etc. > > Yes, there was a settlement. and in many cases, that may also suggest the veracity of the claim. It also can suggest that the person/entity being sued found it to be less of a cost to simply settle (and we don’t know for how much) than to go through the bother/expense/emabarrasment of a trial. > > yes, public statements of Bills are _suggestive_ that he settled 'cause the tapes were pretty accurate/ > > But - can it be used as **proof** that he said these things, No, not in my eyes, nor in many eyes. The confirmation about the tapes came not from Mackey’s complaint but from O’Reilly’s own complaint which demanded that Mackey turn the tapes over. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/317 "2005-06-25T03:23:28Z")
ok, confirmed tapes exist. rest is same (ie not confirmed what was on them- suggestive, yes. not the same as confirmed) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/318 "2005-06-25T03:39:15Z")
I don’t think it’s even suggestive **wring**. If Bill had said “I’m fucking myself up the ass like a motherfuck!”, Mackey would have reported that. She didn’t. He probably was doing just that, but he never told her. I believe that the text the suit uses is “… it became clear.” That’s far and away different from “The defendant clearly stated…” > [@What the conversation was probably like](#): > > Bill: So, I killed a few pupies today. Just stomped on them. Hahahaha. > Mackey: Bill… that’s really disturbing… I don’t know if I want to hear about… > Bill: Yeah, and then I ate some kittens. > Mackey: Bill, I thought we were going to talk about work. > Bill: Oh, yeah, so can you come to work naked? > Mackey: Excuse me? > Bill: What are you wearing now? > Mackey: Mr O’Reilly… > Bill: So would you be willing to be fucked by a golden retriever while I watched? > Mackey: Mr O’Reilly! > Bill: Hey, I didn’t ask to film it, stop being such a prude. I like prostitutes by the way. > Mackey: This is really beyond the pale Mr O’Reilly, you’re my boss. > Bill: Exactly, which is why you should blow me you dirty dirty whore. > Mackey: Okay, I think we should stop talking now. > Bill: Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. > Mackey: What the… are you, are you…? > Bill: Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. > Mackey: Oh my God… you’re not doing what I think you’re doing? > Bill: Yes, yes yesssss!!! George Bush!!! Geoooooorge Buuuuush! Oh fuck yes Geoooooorge!!! > Mackey: ~hangs up~ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/319 "2005-06-25T03:44:39Z")
O’Reilly panting and moaning and talking dirty above the buzz of a vibrator doesn’t rate as “suggestive?” All I did was read the description in the complaint and the “suggestion” is permanently seared in my visual cortex. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/320 "2005-06-25T03:47:34Z")
You misunderstand **Dio**. Was it suggesting that that’s what he was doing? You betcha. Was it suggesting that he came right out and said it? Nopers. Except the part about puppies. He probably totally came right out and said that. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275.md?page=17)