# Dick Durbin says sorry - will those who supported his comments say sorry too? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275 "2005-06-21T23:57:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/81 "2005-06-22T11:36:02Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Answer my question, you cowardly fuck. If I gave you a description of those practices and then asked whether they occurred in a Nazi concentration camp or an American prison, which would you have guessed? Wow. I went to bed. Sorry I didn’t reply soon enough. But I see I have really gotten to you. (an aside- I think message boards allow the TRULY cowardly to act out as they cannot in real life…would you call someone debating you a cowardly fuck? ) I would guess they happened in wartime in a detention camp. Now if you said they were forced to dig their own grave and were shot in front of it, THEN I would guess Nazi death camp. Or if they were forced to do hard labor. Or if they gassed “useless” women, children and elderly. OR if they conducted heinous medical experiments on them. Or if they were rounded up from ghettos. Or if they had the gold dug from their teeth after execution. Or if they died of starvation. Or if they were housed 8 to a bunk. But stress positions? Not Nazi stuff. Maybe the Nazi’s did that, but the comparison is intellectualy vacant. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/82 "2005-06-22T11:45:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Bush has forfeited the moral high ground and given it to the terrorists. OK I am starting to understand. Hyperbole is a standard liberal tool. That puts the entire Durbin comment into context. I also realize the mindset of the left. The terrorists hold the moral high ground. I am not sure any more debate is warranted. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/83 "2005-06-22T11:48:21Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > You’re disgusting and don’t deserve to live in America. Now \*there \* is a comment you could attribute to Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/84 "2005-06-22T11:55:40Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > OK I am starting to understand. Hyperbole is a standard liberal tool. That puts the entire Durbin comment into context. > > I also realize the mindset of the left. The terrorists hold the moral high ground. I am not sure any more debate is warranted. And now we enter the pouty, whiny bitch portion of the Conservative argument. “Liberals Hate America (and love terrorists)! Fuck Yeah!” Unfortunately, **Spavined Gelding** , this one slipped through your impenetrable yet reasoned and mature net of logic. ---
**Author:** ![hildea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ebca7d/32.png) [@hildea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hildea)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/85 "2005-06-22T12:02:54Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I said in the other thread that abuses at Guantanamo most closely resembled abuses at domestic American prisons, and that a comparison with death camps was hyperbolic. > > I’m sticking by that assessment. Given what I understand conditions to be at both places, this seems fair and accurate. So, you’re saying that stuff like the following two descriptions resembles American prisons? Really? Oh, wait, when cutting and pasting I mixed up my quotes. Only one of the following quotes is actually from Gitmo, the other one’s from Sudan. Ah, well, I’m sure it’s obvious which one is which. (As an ironic aside, the AI report notes that the Sudanese prisoners have given one of those camps the nickname “Abu Ghraib”.) > [@Amnesty International](#): > > An inmate recently released from the prison told [human rights organisation] that [name of another prisoner] has been subjected to disciplinary punishments that range from being held in solitary confinement to being chained overnight to a metal board with handcuffs at each end because he is regarded as “resisting reform”. [name] is also reportedly prohibited from talking to other inmates […] and denied proper medical care. > > […] He was arrested in [date]: the authorities did not say why he had been arrested, but he was questioned about the work that [organisation] was doing, and their contacts. He was held for four months in a secret detention centre […] where detainees are kept incommunicado and frequently tortured. For the first two months he had no contact with the outside world. He said he was systematically beaten and tied up, sometimes tied to windows or doors and kept without sleep. > Part of the time he was held in solitary confinement, but later he was held with nine other detainees in a room measuring 4mx4m. > > After this he spent two months in [prison facility], which is well known for the very poor conditions in which detainees are held. He was then moved to [another prison facility] and held there for one month. He does not know why he was > released. During the whole time he was in custody, he was never brought before a prosecutor or judge, and had no contact with his family. > [@Amnesty International](#): > > [name of prisoner] has been in indefinite […] custody without charge or trial for three and a half years, most of it in [name of prison facility]. It is believed that he was 14 years old when he was detained, in [year and place], and had just turned 15 when he was handed over to [authority] the following month. He was then taken to [place] before being transferred to [place] in January 2002. For more than a year he has been held in [prison facility] where conditions are particularly harsh. He is held in solitary confinement in a concrete cell for up to 24 hours a day. Amnesty International believes that his conditions of detention amount to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, in violation of international law […] > > […] he says that he was […] hooded, shackled, beaten, threatened with death […] He was [transported] to [place], where he alleges he was physically assaulted on arrival, and kept naked for the first week. He has alleged that he was beaten, doused in freezing water, and that on one occasion, a guard grabbed [his] penis and threatened to cut it off with scissors he was brandishing. > > […] During the ensuing interrogation process, he has said that he was subjected to hanging by the wrists for up to eight hours at a time, beatings, sleep deprivation, strobe lighting, extreme cold via air conditioners, […] During an interrogation in 2003, when [name] was 16 years old, the interrogator allegedly burned his arm with a cigarette. The teenager still has scars that he says was from this incident. > […] On his first day in [prison camp], [name] said that: “The Interrogator explained why I was in [prison camp]: ‘We made this camp for people who would be here forever. You should never think about going home. You’ll be here all your life. Maybe one day my son will come to see you as you get old. Don’t worry, we’ll keep you alive so you can suffer more. If you don’t believe me, look at these walls.’ And he banged on the concrete wall to show how solid it was.” ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/86 "2005-06-22T12:08:45Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > And now we enter the pouty, whiny bitch portion of the Conservative argument. > > “Liberals Hate America (and love terrorists)! Fuck Yeah!” > > Unfortunately, **Spavined Gelding** , this one slipped through your impenetrable yet reasoned and mature net of logic. I was QUOTING his post. He stated that the terrorists hold the moral high ground. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/87 "2005-06-22T12:13:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Oh, not this tired old thing again. Look, if every single person in the US took to the streets denouncing human rights abuses in Korea… not one single goddamned thing would change over there. Kim Il Jong doesn’t care if his own people starve to death by the tens of thousands. He sure as fuck doesn’t care that a bunch of foreigners on the other side of the planet disapprove. Protesting human rights abuses in repressive dictatorships in other countries is simply stupid. It’s the sort of pointless, feel-good wankfest for which liberals are justly criticized. On the other hand, in a free, democratic society, protest can effect real change. Kim Il Jong doesn’t care what we think, but George Bush sure as fuck does. Doesn’t it make more sense to focus our efforts on the lesser evil we can rectify, than to waste our time on the greater evil we can’t possibly affect? I don’t think that shows a lack of perspective. Rather, I think it shows a commendable sense of economoy. Change “Kim Jong-Il” to “Saddam Hussein” and “Korea” to “Iraq, circa 1999” in the above. **Miller** , I take your point, but this attitude is creating a _de facto_ double standard between the civilized countries of the world, and terrorist regimes like North Korea. Jeanne Kirkpatrick made a related point in her book, [Dictatorships and Double Standards](http://www.brothersjudd.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/reviews.detail/book_id/608/Dictatorships%20and%20Double%20Standards%20:%20Rationalism%20and%20Reason%20in%20Politics.htm). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/88 "2005-06-22T13:03:04Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Wow. I went to bed. Sorry I didn’t reply soon enough. You avoided my question when you intially replied. Unless you happened to post that last bit in your sleep. > [@](#): > > (an aside- I think message boards allow the TRULY cowardly to act out as they cannot in real life…would you call someone debating you a cowardly fuck? ) Yes. I’ve done it before, I’d do it again. If you were here in front of me, I’d call you a cowardly fuck to your face as many times as you’d like. > [@](#): > > I would guess they happened in wartime in a detention camp. Now if you said they were forced to dig their own grave and were shot in front of it, THEN I would guess Nazi death camp. Once again, you avoid the question. Please just answer it. Here is the question, one more time: if I gave you a description of what went on in Abu Ghraib or Gitmo (prisoners kidnapped out of their homes and held for years with charge, prisoners being beaten to death, prisoners forced to undergo sexual humiliation, prisoners deliberately burned with cigarettes while being interrogated, prisoners kept chained to the floor in extreme heat, etc.) and then asked you whether you thought those were committed in a military prison run by a) Nazis, b) Stalinists, c) Americans, or d) Khmer Rouge, what would you answer. There is only one correct answer - either (a), (b), (c) or (d). ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/89 "2005-06-22T13:17:07Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > I was QUOTING his post. He stated that the terrorists hold the moral high ground. **Spavined Gelding** said no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/90 "2005-06-22T13:17:20Z")
Yes, **newcrasher** , I wish Durbin hadn’t said that. Do \*you \* wish he hadn’t had \*occasion \* to say it? The torture and abuse problem exists regardless of the wording of any criticism of it. It existed before Durbin said anything. Why are you trying to make Durbin the subject, not the torture and abuse? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/91 "2005-06-22T14:12:49Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > OK I am starting to understand. Hyperbole is a standard liberal tool. That puts the entire Durbin comment into context. > > I also realize the mindset of the left. The terrorists hold the moral high ground. I am not sure any more debate is warranted. Moral high ground is relative. The terrorists stabbed the US in the back, and the US responded with atrocities. Doesn’t make the terrorists wonderful people but in the court of world opinion any pretense that the US had to being an injured party has long since been forfeited. Whether Bush or the terrorists are lower than the other is irrelevant, Bush jumped off the high ground directly into the sewer. Had he not done so, Durbin wouldn’t have had occasion to make the Nazi comparison. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/92 "2005-06-22T14:50:44Z")
I’m also a constituent of Dick’s, and generally ashamed of him. For a brief moment, I was proud that my senator had the moral clarity and the balls to speak out about what is going on and to call a spade an instrument more like a shovel than a watering can. Then the fuckin’ coward let himself be beaten down and forced to recant. Back on my shit-list, Dicky Boy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/93 "2005-06-22T15:32:33Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Basically what I see is that if its not America committing the atrocities its just not worth getting excited about…especially on this board and by many of the folks in this thread. If it IS America, then its time to bring out the foam and get worked up…hell folks come out of the wood work to rant about the US and how evil we are. > [@An idiot](#): > > Or, to paraphrase you: “Wah, wah, wah. These people just hate America so much and think we’re so evil, that’s the only reason they’re bringing the issue up.” Hey, if you want to read it that way knock yourself out. Of course, this isn’t what I was getting at had you bothered to read the rest of the post…but I’m sure that was too much of a bother for you when you could just focus on one part. In case there is any hope of still reaching such a brain damaged specimen as yourself I’ll translate what I was REALLY getting at: Its not good to focus so much on bashing the US that you lose site of other atrocities out there. No ‘wah, wah, wah’ no ‘just hate America’ strawmen needed. > [@An idiot](#): > > Which would be exactly your excuse if that happened someone wrote a Pit thread about it. “It’s not THAT bad. Why are all you liberals crying about this when horrible regimes do worse things every day? WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?” Um…I was trying to make a point, but one that is obviously lost on you, as from your reply you are just knee jerking with your standard tape recording screed of anything you think is ‘conservative’. Not that I’m sure it will register, but I’m neither a conservative nor a Republican…nor a Bush supporter. For the record I DON’T agree with whats being done at Gitmo, I DON’T think the US is right to hold those folks without a chance to defend themselves, and I DON’T think the US should be resorting to full scale torture. Do I hate America? No…I just think we are going about this in the wrong way. Hey…maybe like yourself Bush and his advisors ALSO have their heads up their asses? Its a thought… > [@An idiot](#): > > You’re pathetic and morally bankrupt. People like you are how Nazis and Pol Pots get into power. Willing to excuse any action committed by their side and support them no matter what. You’re disgusting and don’t deserve to live in America. And you are a pathetic and MENTALLY bankrupt individual who doesn’t know how to do anything more original that say ‘fuck you’…or the ironic (coming from you) ‘You’re disgusting and don’t deserve to live in America’ (ironic because this is usually some foam I hear coming from a ‘conservative’ talking to a ‘liberal’). Unfortunately for you my green card days are long passed and I AM an American citizen…so on that score you can blow it out your ass (and perhaps doing so your head will pop free…could be a good side benifit for you). If you actually read what I wrote IN CONTEXT, then you would see that I’m NOT excusing any action or torture…certainly not by the US. If you could take the time to de-insert your head from your ass and actually take a look and read without the red haze in your eyes you would have seen this. Or to put it another way…a lot of other folks who are passionate about this subject, who are against Bush and against America’s treatment of the prisoners ALSO read what I said…and you are the only one coming back with these ridiculous assertions that I’m saying somehow that torture is good, that America is always right, and that anyone disagreeing Hates America™, blah blah blah, rant rant rant. I’m sure this is far beyond your feeble mental ability to grasp, as is clear from your post, but hey, I had to try. Crawl back into your hole, please…you are getting a bit tiresome now. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/94 "2005-06-22T15:53:39Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > OK I’ll bite. > > In what way does Gitmo resemble Treblinca? Dachau? Auscwitz? > > In what way does it resemble the forced labor camps of Siberia? Because people got tortured in all four places? Duh. Fucking Pubbie spinhole. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/95 "2005-06-22T16:02:20Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Because people got tortured in all four places? Did they? Afaik they were mostly just starved, worked to death and then gassed (in the case of the first 3) and then put into ovens or buried in mass graves. I don’t think systematic torture was really in play at any of those 4…at least, thats not what they are most noted for. If there WAS torture in play there it wasn’t for the same purposes (i.e. they weren’t exactly trying to extract information from the Jews in the case of the first 3, nor were the Soviets interested in extracting information from the political prisoners in their gulags…they had other prisons for that kind of thing). Whereas, again afaik, there HAS been systematic torture of prisoners at Gitmo (either physical or psychological)…but no work to death/starvation thing, no gas chambers and no mass graves. So, on the surface at least they don’t appear to resemble each other. Were I to make a not so over the top analogy to compare to Gitmo that was actually (reasonably) factually consistent I’d say Gitmo resembled Lubyanka prison (were I to stay with a Soviet analogy). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/96 "2005-06-22T16:07:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Once again, you avoid the question. Please just answer it. Here is the question, one more time: if I gave you a description of what went on in Abu Ghraib or Gitmo (prisoners kidnapped out of their homes and held for years with charge, prisoners being beaten to death, prisoners forced to undergo sexual humiliation, prisoners deliberately burned with cigarettes while being interrogated, prisoners kept chained to the floor in extreme heat, etc.) and then asked you whether you thought those were committed in a military prison run by a) Nazis, b) Stalinists, c) Americans, or d) Khmer Rouge, what would you answer. There is only one correct answer - either (a), (b), © or (d). C’mon, Newscrasher, answer the question. It’s the question Durbin actually asked. Whassamatta you? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/97 "2005-06-22T16:10:04Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Whassamatta you? Perhaps the problem is that he is not Alumni of Bullwinkle’s alma mutter. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/98 "2005-06-22T16:10:20Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Did they? Afaik they were mostly just starved, worked to death and then gassed (in the case of the first 3) and then put into ovens or buried in mass graves. I don’t think systematic torture was really in play at any of those 4…at least, thats not what they are most noted for. If there WAS torture in play there it wasn’t for the same purposes (i.e. they weren’t exactly trying to extract information from the Jews in the case of the first 3, nor were the Soviets interested in extracting information from the political prisoners in their gulags…they had other prisons for that kind of thing). > > Whereas, again afaik, there HAS been systematic torture of prisoners at Gitmo (either physical or psychological)…but no work to death/starvation thing, no gas chambers and no mass graves. So, on the surface at least they don’t appear to resemble each other. Were I to make a not so over the top analogy to compare to Gitmo that was actually (reasonably) factually consistent I’d say Gitmo resembled Lubyanka prison (were I to stay with a Soviet analogy). > > -XT Bleeding heart liberal that I am, I think of deliberately starving people, working them to death and keeping them caged up while killing them off en masse to be forms of torture. Quite severe torture, actually … you see any of those photos of concentration camp inmates when the Americans got there? That was torture, more severe than anything we’re currently dishing out, by orders of magnitude. But we’ve still been torturing people. Torture, torture, torture, torture. It’s all bad. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/99 "2005-06-22T16:14:42Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > Americans don’t believe in torture or abandoning due process _for American citizens._ Ever hear of Jose Padilla? [cite](http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/060104_ns_padilla.html): > [@](#): > > If Jose Padilla had been arrested for plotting to blow up the residences of rival Chicago street gang members, he would have been prosecuted in the criminal courts. Padilla would be afforded all the constitutional rights that every American citizen has. But even though Padilla is an American, he continues to be held as an enemy combatant with no constitutional rights in a navy brig in South Carolina. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275/100 "2005-06-22T16:20:20Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > But we’ve still been torturing people. Torture, torture, torture, torture. It’s all bad. And, hard as I’m sure this is for you to believe, I agree with you. Its all bad. But…its not all the same. Because two things are bad, does not make them the same. -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dick-durbin-says-sorry-will-those-who-supported-his-comments-say-sorry-too/309275.md?page=6)