# Did 1960s radicals really believe that ALL prisoners should be freed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 12, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959 "2011-12-12T21:49:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/1 "2011-12-12T21:49:38Z")
Reading about the fascinating 60s radicalism, I found a group called the “White Panther Party.” They had a 10-point manifesto stating: 1. Full endorsement and support of the Black Panther Party’s 10-point program and platform. 2. Total assault on the culture by any means necessary, including rock and roll, dope, and fucking in the streets. 3. Free exchange of energy and materials—we demand the end of money! 4. Free food, clothes, housing, dope, music, bodies, medical care—everything free for every body! 5. Free access to information media—free the technology from the greed creeps! 6. Free time & space for all humans—dissolve all unnatural boundaries! 7. Free all schools and all structures from corporate rule—turn the buildings over to the people at once! **8. Free all prisoners everywhere—they are our comrades!** 8. Free all soldiers at once—no more conscripted armies! 9. Free the people from their phony “leaders”—everyone must be a leader—freedom means free every one! All Power to the People! Did they really believe in freeing _all_ prisoners? Is this just talking about political prisoners, or do they genuinely mean all prisoners in state and federal prisons? How could anyone really believe the latter? Elsewhere in the [article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Panther_Party), it say they were in favor of firearms. Did they believe in total anarchy and every man for himself? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/2 "2011-12-12T21:53:19Z")
Based on the other points in their manifesto, I’m pretty sure they did mean everyone. I’m sure that they believed that, if everyone was truly free, with everything provided at no charge (see points 3-5), that it’d be a groovy utopia, and crime would cease to exist. (Whether that was a **realistic** belief or not is another discussion entirely… 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/3 "2011-12-12T22:03:21Z")
Yeah, you are missing a big part of the picture. Once the barriers were broken down, no would would have to worry about things like working or money so there would be no need for crime and it would just go away because everyone is good on the inside unless they are oppressed by the man. I never did figure out what people were supposed to do all day in this society other than take drugs, have random sex, and listen to music. Some people give philosophies like this including true communism the courtesy of serious debate but I think that is about as effective as taking any group crackpots seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/4 "2011-12-12T22:09:43Z")
So did they even believe that, say, white racist terrorists who were imprisoned for raping and murdering black families should be released? Did they think that guys like James Earl Ray deserved to be released? Soldiers locked up in military penitentiaries for committing atrocities against civilians? Sociopathic predators who needed to kill people the same way you and I need to eat food and drink water? ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/5 "2011-12-12T22:12:15Z")
As the Cold War was at its height at that time, even a few of the demands becoming reality, or the attempt at disrupting American society itself would have been of great use to the Soviet Union. I wonder who put them up to it ? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/6 "2011-12-12T22:14:10Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > So did they even believe that, say, white racist terrorists who were imprisoned for raping and murdering black families should be released? Did they think that guys like James Earl Ray deserved to be released? Soldiers locked up in military penitentiaries for committing atrocities against civilians? Sociopathic predators who needed to kill people the same way you and I need to eat food and drink water? Clearly, you aren’t taking enough of the good stuff for this to make sense to you. 😉 Or, at least, you aren’t taking as much of the good stuff as those guys were back then. But, seriously, there are so many logical flaws in their premises (see some of what Shagnasty pointed out, for starters), that this particular one pales in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/7 "2011-12-12T22:19:10Z")
Freeing all prisoners is not the most ridiculous or impossible of their stated goals. Numbers 1 and 2 are the only ones they could even begin to effect. Whatever they believed, it’s pretty clear they didn’t give it much thought beyond “I want this.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/8 "2011-12-12T22:26:35Z")
I don’t know about all prisoners, but I remember a fair amount of rhetoric that all black prisoners should be released because all black prisoners were political prisoners. Hard to know how seriously they meant it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/9 "2011-12-12T23:00:00Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > As the Cold War was at its height at that time, even a few of the demands becoming reality, or the attempt at disrupting American society itself would have been of great use to the Soviet Union. > > I wonder who put them up to it ? Are you implying that the Soviet Union “put them up to it?” Because that is certainly wrong. \*\*Argent Towers \*\*is on the right track with the idea of anarchy. To be exact, it was a poorly thought out idea of a utopian society where basic needs are taken care of, people are free to assume their own fulfillment, and all sorts of other good stuff naturally happens. It bore about as much relationship to genuine political philosophy as the flying cars in _Popular Mechanics_ had to the 1967 Camaro., and the Soviet Union took it just about that seriously. [QUOTE=Gary T] Numbers 1 and 2 are the only ones they could even begin to effect. [/QUOTE] To be fair, they eventually got #9. AmeriKKKa did get rid of its conscripted army. Look how well that worked out for the revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/10 "2011-12-12T23:18:42Z")
While rhetoric like this does reflect some elements of the actual beliefs of some radicals, it’s important to recognize that it’s in large part political trolling: making the most extreme statements possible in order to piss off The Man. I doubt that even the most extreme and naive radicals meant it as a literal model for a future society. [This essay](http://bad.eserver.org/issues/1999/42/mosher.html) may give better insight into what the White Panthers really represented. > [@Lust4Life](#): > > As the Cold War was at its height at that time, even a few of the demands becoming reality, or the attempt at disrupting American society itself would have been of great use to the Soviet Union. > > I wonder who put them up to it ? This is just silly. If the Soviets were going to promote a political group, surely it would be one whose demands weren’t such extreme and ridiculous, and one that had a better chance to be taken seriously. The White Panthers were a tiny group that never had an extensive following. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Medlo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hi\_Medlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Medlo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/11 "2011-12-12T23:47:34Z")
Wow, seems like I’ve heard a lot of that stuff in the last few weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/12 "2011-12-13T00:15:07Z")
Bear in mind that law enforcement would create these groups, just to see what would come out of the woodwork. The Utah Communist party was disbanded when its 8 members realized they were all planted in it by one government agency or another. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/13 "2011-12-13T00:16:31Z")
You realize this was probably about 5 guys, on acid, do you? This sort of stuff does not represent “the left,” or even “the far left,” even as it was in the crazy times of the late '60s. As **Colibri** says, inasmuch as there was any real purpose behind it at all, it had more in common with trolling than actual political sloganizing. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/14 "2011-12-13T00:21:04Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You realize this was probably about 5 guys, on acid, do you? This sort of stuff does not represent “the left,” or even “the far left,” even as it was in the crazy times of the late '60s. > > As **Colibri** says, inasmuch as there was any real purpose behind it at all, it had more in common with trolling than actual political sloganizing. Well according to the article **Argent Towers** posted, they got steam: > [@](#): > > Plamondon was indicted as a co-conspirator with Sinclair in connection with the bombing of the CIA office in Ann Arbor a year after the founding of the group. Upon hearing on the left-wing alternative radio station WABX that he had been indicted, he fled the U.S. for Europe and Africa, spending time in Algeria with exiled Black Panther Eldridge Cleaver. After secretly reentering the country, and on his way to a safe house in northern Michigan, he was arrested in a routine traffic stop, joining Sinclair, who had been sentenced to nine and half years in jail for violating Michigan’s marijuana possession laws, in prison. Plamondon was convicted and was in prison when Sinclair was released on bond in 1971 while appeals were being heard on his case. **Sinclair’s unexpected release came two days after a large “Free John” benefit concert, with performances from John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and Stevie Wonder, was held at the University of Michigan’s Crisler Arena.** ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/15 "2011-12-13T01:12:03Z")
I think there’s a legitimate argument to be made for releasing somebody who was sentenced to nine and a half years for marijuana possession. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/16 "2011-12-13T02:21:16Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Well according to the article **Argent Towers** posted, they got steam: I would guess that celebrity support for Sinclair had far more to do with the fact that he was the manager of a rock band who had been convicted for marijuana possession than any sympathy for his political manifesto or support for the White Panthers as a group. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/17 "2011-12-13T03:04:05Z")
Steven Pinker tells a story when he was growing up that he was an anarchist. He once was having an argument with his parents about the police. He made the statement that if the police disappeared, they personally wouldn’t be committing crimes. Therefore, the police were unnecessary. His theory was later tested when the Montreal Police struck in 1969. Immediate chaos reigned as people rioted and looted. The incident colored his perceptions about man and the need for authority. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/18 "2011-12-13T03:20:23Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > To be fair, they eventually got #9. AmeriKKKa did get rid of its conscripted army. You’re right, I didn’t consider that one carefully. > [@](#): > > Look how well that worked out for the revolution. “Be careful what you wish for…” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/19 "2011-12-13T05:58:41Z")
Weird connections. I’ve read some of the SF and horror novels written by Mick Farren. But until reading the Wikipedia articles on the White Panthers, I hadn’t known he was a sixties radical. ---
**Author:** ![BeaMyra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@BeaMyra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeaMyra)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959/20 "2011-12-13T06:02:42Z")
As for sociopaths with a need to kill, remember it was a different time back then. Homosexuality was a mental illness, autism was caused by cold distant mothering and people believed in total equality of the sexes. We now know this is wrong. Even the sexes being equal, men and women are phyically wired to think differently. One is not better or worse, it’s just different. So it’s not hard to see how they people believed a change in thinking is all that was needed Of course it all is about on the same level as if you said, we don’t need policemen, IF everyone would just obey the law. Well that’s right, but not doable. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-1960s-radicals-really-believe-that-all-prisoners-should-be-freed/605959.md?page=2)