# Did a show ever improve after the departure of a star? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 18, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-a-show-ever-improve-after-the-departure-of-a-star/453308 "2008-06-18T05:35:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-a-show-ever-improve-after-the-departure-of-a-star/453308/81 "2008-06-23T14:52:24Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] I’ve seen most of Frasier several times and I don’t remember the specific. Care to enlighten? -Joe [/QUOTE] Frasier agrees to back Diane’s play. He discovers the entire play is the gang at Cheers professing their undying love for a blond waitress called Mary Anne. When the actor playing Frasier (“Franklin”) can’t understand how to play the part, the real Frasier explodes. > [@](#): > > Frasier: (enraged) I may be able to illuminate that for you! (storms on stage) What you are feeling is that this woman (indicating “Mary-Anne”) has reached into your chest, plucked out your heart, and thrown it to her hell hounds for a chew toy! And it’s not the last time either! Because that’s what this woman is! She is the Devil! There’s no use running away from her, because no matter how far you go, no matter how many years you let pass, you will never be completely out of reach of those bony fingers! So drink hearty, Franklin, and laugh! Because you have made a pact with Beelzebub! (yelling) AND HER NAME IS MARY-ANNE!" > (The cast applauds Frasier’s “performance.”) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-a-show-ever-improve-after-the-departure-of-a-star/453308/82 "2008-06-23T14:55:07Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] Major Margaret “Hot Lips” Hoolihan went from being a shrew of a woman to being a subservient little nurse. She suffered the most from “Aldaism.” [/QUOTE] 😕 Um…maybe in the Bizarro Universe. I remember her going from being a one-dimensional sex bomb to a multi-faceted hardass (and being sexier that way, to boot). How was she subservient? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-a-show-ever-improve-after-the-departure-of-a-star/453308/83 "2008-06-23T15:01:05Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] 😕 Um…maybe in the Bizarro Universe. I remember her going from being a one-dimensional sex bomb to a multi-faceted hardass (and being sexier that way, to boot). How was she subservient? [/QUOTE] Ditto. I was going to say the same thing but didn’t want to bother with the double post. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-a-show-ever-improve-after-the-departure-of-a-star/453308/84 "2008-06-23T15:32:30Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] 😕 Um…maybe in the Bizarro Universe. I remember her going from being a one-dimensional sex bomb to a multi-faceted hardass (and being sexier that way, to boot). How was she subservient? [/QUOTE] I agree. That was another benefit of Burn’s departure: It allowed Hoolihan to grow from a distaff Burns to a real character. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-a-show-ever-improve-after-the-departure-of-a-star/453308/85 "2008-06-23T18:29:16Z")
JAG, when Catherine Bell replaced Tracey Needham, although I suppose she was never really a ‘star.’ I also totally agree with **Skald** et. al. about Hoolihan. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-a-show-ever-improve-after-the-departure-of-a-star/453308/86 "2008-06-23T18:41:32Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] _Family Guy_ got better after Lacey Chabert left. [/QUOTE] With this, or the case of Denise Crosby on “Star Trek, TNG,” you’re talking about supporting characters who left the show after one season (and in the case of Chabert, her character didn’t leave the show, it was just voiced by another actor. I will grant Mila Kunis does a better job.) “Family Guy” and “Star Trek” did not get better because those actors left the show; they got better simply because a lot of shows get better in their second season as they work out the bugs in the formula. Losing Tasha Yar and changing Meg Griffin’s voice weren’t the things that (primarily) made those shows better. This stuff is always hard to judge because no show is consistently the same quality from year to year, and you have to say “Okay, did the show get better or worse because of that guy leaving? Or is that just incidental?” I’d agree M_A_S\*H gradually morphed into a poor show as it ran, but there’s no doubt in my mind replacing Frank Burns with Charles Winchester was the right move; Burns wasn’t funny at all, and what suspension of disbelief you could muster ran out of the room screaming every time he walked onscreen. (How does a retard because a surgeon?) Winchester was a much better, more human foil; he seemed like an actual person who just couldn’t get along with some people, but every now and then was an okay guy. Like most pompous windbags. I think whomever mentioned “Cheers” wins the thread. I can’t think of an example that even remotely approaches that. Shelley Long was the show’s #2 star, right behind Ted Danson, the female and romantic lead. The show was, in my opinion, much funnier without her, BECAUSE she left. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-a-show-ever-improve-after-the-departure-of-a-star/453308/87 "2008-06-24T00:41:36Z")
Wayne Rodgers chose to leave **M_A_S\*H** because he wanted equal time with Alda who was the more popular figure. (The original books were written by a Maine physician who was in a MASH unit although the author didn’t identify much with the Hawkeye of the movie or the television series.) Mike Farrell was great for the change! As B. J. Honeycutt, family man, he brought a missing element. Handsome too. McLean Stevenson chose to leave to try his luck on his own show. His character was very popular, but the Col. Potter character became absolutely beloved. Having Stevenson’s character, Col. Henry Blake, shot down over the Sea of Japan on his way home, was a turning point in **M_A_S\*H**. It was no longer just a comedy. Some liked the change some didn’t. Larry Linville was one of the best actors on the show, but his character was not the sort who could develop as the other characters did. He was a characature. So he had to go. Winchester was marvelous. A little bit of a characature, but reachable. I think the next three or so years were the best. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-a-show-ever-improve-after-the-departure-of-a-star/453308.md?page=4)