# Did any of the Star Trek books explain how the economy of the Federation worked? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 25, 2008, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175 "2008-08-25T06:45:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/1 "2008-08-25T06:45:04Z")
I assume it was some sort Utopian socialism where basic needs etc. are taken care, but beyond that if someone wanted to accumulate land, resources etc how would they go about doing that? What if someone didn’t want to work at all? Did any of the books or shows delve into the workings of the Federation economy. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/2 "2008-08-25T10:50:39Z")
[QUOTE=astro] Did any of the books or shows delve into the workings of the Federation economy. [/QUOTE] I don’t recall anything specifically said on any of the shows about exactly how the Federation’s economy works, beyond platitudes like “I don’t carry money” and the like. You can’t trust what you read in the trek novels. None of them are official canon. I used to read the novels, but I stopped after one too many times when the latest show or movie would outright contradict some “fact” revealed in a book I’d read previously. \*\*\* Ponder ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/3 "2008-08-25T11:09:30Z")
I do wonder about that. If you have a replicator and a holodeck, you can have anything you could ever want, so why do anything at all? There was an episode of TNG where a few 21st Century citizens were woken from their cryogenic sleep, and one was expecting his investments to have matured to some astronomical amount, the response to this was that they had no need for money anymore so it was a waste of his time. Any kind of analysis of that idea rapidly becomes unworkable. Why work at all in that case? And yet clearly some work was still being handled by humans, such as inventing and maintaining technology, and, not least of which, travelling the stars interfering with aliens. Eventually they had to invent “gold pressed latinum” and new economic-based storylines could develop via the Ferengi. But they never really explained much beyond that level of superficiality. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/4 "2008-08-25T11:49:10Z")
About the replicators – can they transmute elements? If not, then there’d still be strategic, and therefore valuable, metals and other elements. You’d think that all the menial chores would be done by robots, but I don’t know if that’s ever really addressed. For instance, on a modern Naval vessel, there’s constant cleaning and maintenance, but I don’t know if we ever see somebody doing that aboard them fancy Federation starships. (And in Starfleet, they might choose to have human crewmen do that work just to instill discipline and camaraderie.) Why do we even do this? Dozens of different writers made that stuff up as they went along, over the years. ETA: Stupid question about the replicators, now that I think of it. They could store a data pattern for any kind of matter, right, and replicate it out of pure energy? So they should be able to reproduce any element they had the pattern for. (So what was the deal with that “gold pressed latinum” stuff, then? I vaguely remember something about it not being replicable.) ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/5 "2008-08-25T11:51:27Z")
They specifically said in DS9 that humans/the Federation had abandoned currency based economics. Clearly with replicators the basic unit of currency would be energy or credit for such, but I never recall it being explained in any detail that bears up to scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/6 "2008-08-25T12:01:58Z")
It’s all about the latinum, baby. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/7 "2008-08-25T12:11:30Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] You’d think that all the menial chores would be done by robots, but I don’t know if that’s ever really addressed. For instance, on a modern Naval vessel, there’s constant cleaning and maintenance, but I don’t know if we ever see somebody doing that aboard them fancy Federation starships. (And in Starfleet, they might choose to have human crewmen do that work just to instill discipline and camaraderie.) [/quote] There’s actually a line in a TNG episode where Picard tells a guest “the ship will clean itself.” > [@](#): > > ETA: Stupid question about the replicators, now that I think of it. They could store a data pattern for any kind of matter, right, and replicate it out of pure energy? So they should be able to reproduce any element they had the pattern for. > > (So what was the deal with that “gold pressed latinum” stuff, then? I vaguely remember something about it not being replicable.) They could replicate _almost_ anything, except stuff which it wasn’t able to replicate, like the occasional plot-important item or latinum. That’s why technologically advanced but still capitalistic societies like the Ferengi use it for currency (suspended in chunks of “worthless gold,” of course. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/8 "2008-08-25T12:22:38Z")
It was explained by \\\\ I trust that answers all questions. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/9 "2008-08-25T12:23:05Z")
I was wondering about this very idea the other day. On earth in certain episodes they show SF or somewhere like that and little coffee shops. Why would you work in a coffee shop or bar or wherever, serving people if you didn’t need money? Why would you do any job if you could just bum around on Risa? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/10 "2008-08-25T13:34:56Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] I was wondering about this very idea the other day. On earth in certain episodes they show SF or somewhere like that and little coffee shops. Why would you work in a coffee shop or bar or wherever, serving people if you didn’t need money? Why would you do any job if you could just bum around on Risa? [/QUOTE] And they never did explain exactly how Grandpa Sisko “owned” his Cajun restaurant, nor how anybody paid for their tube-grub jumbalaya. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/11 "2008-08-25T13:49:53Z")
Replicators are unable to process macguffins. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/12 "2008-08-25T13:50:04Z")
Who says they did? In a society where people’s jobs are basically what they enjoy and what they’re good at, why not run a restaurant? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/13 "2008-08-25T14:10:43Z")
A hint of that is seen on Eureka. The owner of Cafe Diem, whose name I cannot recall right now, doesn’t charge anything for the food, yet happily works away. I couldn’t tell you where I’d read or heard it (probably _First Contact_), but the idea is the Federation is “enlightened” to the point where the driving force is not money but an idealistic sense of goodwill and cooperation. People work in Starfleet or at a restaurant because they want to. IMO, it’s a plywood prop that falls over if you prod at it too hard, but it works well enough for the show. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/14 "2008-08-25T14:36:47Z")
Replicators can never create _status_. If someone values a reputation of some sort (such as a brave captain, or a skilled chef, or a great novelist) they have to work for it. They can use the holodeck to pretend, but ultimately _they_ know it’s not real. Money is not, and has never been, the only incentive for human achievement. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/15 "2008-08-25T14:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] The owner of Cafe Diem, whose name I cannot recall right now… [/QUOTE] Vincent. I hope he gets a central part in an episode sometime, he’s cool. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/16 "2008-08-25T14:52:55Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] It was explained by \\\\ I trust that answers all questions. [/QUOTE] I believe the classic form of the argument is: 1. Abandon currency-based economy 2. ??? 3. Prosper! If everyone’s material needs have been met through technology, I could see how a philosophical system based on personal growth might take wing as a replacement. Obviously this is not a situation that anyone has really needed to work out the fine details for yet. But if you subtract the optimism from the Star Trek universe, there’s really not much left over except velour uniforms and wry banter. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/17 "2008-08-25T15:14:01Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] I believe the classic form of the argument is: 1. Abandon currency-based economy 2. ??? 3. Prosper! . [/QUOTE] Actually, it’s- 1. Abandon currency-based economy 2. ??? 3. Live long. 4. Prosper! ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/18 "2008-08-25T15:30:54Z")
Oo, oo, oo… I think I know this one. \* grinding of mental gears \* Nope, sorry. I thought I had something. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/19 "2008-08-25T15:31:39Z")
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus] Who says they did? In a society where people’s jobs are basically what they enjoy and what they’re good at, why not run a restaurant? [/QUOTE] But with no money, how did Grandpa acquire the right to run _that particular_ restaurant, located on that particular plot of land in New Orleans? Did he win it in a lottery? Was it passed down from ancestors who owned it? Does he have some proprietary lease from the quasi-socialist all-owning Earth gubbermint? And if so, how did he get it? ---
**Author:** ![pingnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@pingnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pingnak)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175/20 "2008-08-25T15:36:55Z")
They’re commies! [http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Trek-Marxism.html](http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Trek-Marxism.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-any-of-the-star-trek-books-explain-how-the-economy-of-the-federation-worked/461175.md?page=2)