# Did anyone actually lead from the front? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 9, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224 "2006-01-09T22:36:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/21 "2006-01-10T16:02:38Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > And as far as I know, in military aviation, the commanding officer tends to lead from the front. I believe [General Curtis LeMay](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay) was a prime example of this. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/22 "2006-01-10T17:01:27Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > I believe [General Curtis LeMay](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay) was a prime example of this. Hehe, General LeMay, from what I understand, was something of a nutcase too. He once snuck up on an SP who was guarding some parked bombers. The SP shot at him and missed. The general had the SP court-martialled for _missing_. 😃 IIRC, General George Washington was known for exposing himself to enemy fire, riding back and forth on his horse rallying his troops during battle. The man was also apparantly frustratingly hard to hit with a musket. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/23 "2006-01-10T17:59:54Z")
Keegan states that the American Civil War was among the first in which generals stayed well back from the fighting, controlling their troops from afar. He says that Waterloo was about as big as a battle as a general right on the scene could control personally; after that, battles got much bigger and the general tended to stay offsite and delegate on-site leadership to lower ranks. Of course, lower ranks are expected to lead from the front, even today. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/24 "2006-01-10T23:39:43Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > IIRC, General George Washington was known for exposing himself to enemy fire, riding back and forth on his horse rallying his troops during battle. The man was also apparantly frustratingly hard to hit with a musket. It seems that everybody was hard to hit with a musket. If that hadn’t been true the tactic of standing in ranks and firing salvos by the numbers wouldn’t have lasted past the first battle. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/25 "2006-01-10T23:40:52Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > It seems that everybody was hard to hit with a musket. If that hadn’t been true the tactic of standing in ranks and firing salvos by the numbers wouldn’t have lasted past the first battle. That is, it wouldn’t have lasted unless the generals of WWI had been in charge. ---
**Author:** ![ryobserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@ryobserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryobserver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/26 "2006-01-10T23:45:02Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > It seems that everybody was hard to hit with a musket. If that hadn’t been true the tactic of standing in ranks and firing salvos by the numbers wouldn’t have lasted past the first battle. The Revolutionary War smoothbores weren’t at all accurate. Hence the invention of rifled muskets. Unfortunately the tactics didn’t change at the same time the muskets did, which is one reason the Civil War was as bloody as it was. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/27 "2006-01-10T23:51:43Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > Keegan states that the American Civil War was among the first in which generals stayed well back from the fighting, controlling their troops from afar. Even then, [Confederate General Albert Sidney Johnson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Sidney_Johnston) met his end due to an injury suffered leading his troops at Shiloh, and tons of lesser generals and colonels were killed or wounded during the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/28 "2006-01-10T23:57:10Z")
> [@ryobserver](#): > > The Revolutionary War smoothbores weren’t at all accurate. Hence the invention of rifled muskets. Unfortunately the tactics didn’t change at the same time the muskets did, which is one reason the Civil War was as bloody as it was. Yes and the machine gun and rapid fire artillery called for another change of tactics which the generals of WWI didn’t seem to grasp either. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/29 "2006-01-11T12:12:14Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Did they? Including whom? I know Richard III got taken down in battle, but I don’t know that he was leading any charges at the time. > > There was a Swedish king who was notorious for doing this, and did indeed come to a sticky end, during Sweden’s brief moment in the sun in about the 1600s. I can’t remember which one it was though. Gustavas Adolphus, as was already pointed out. Although [Charles XII](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_XII_of_Sweden) was also a 'lead ‘em in’ type. Favored shock tactics with cavalry charges at a time when most warefare was turning to attempts to cut the other general’s supply line. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/30 "2006-01-11T12:33:31Z")
> [@Slade](#): > > English kings used to lead their troops into battle all the time, and several were killed doing so. I assume any administrative advantage of keeping the king safe would be more than outweighed by the loss of faith this would cause among his troops. “Fight for a bloke who’s back home hiding under the bed? Not me!” Oh yeah? Whatever happened to “fighting for king and country”? - Jinx 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/31 "2006-01-11T12:54:14Z")
> [@ryobserver](#): > > The Revolutionary War smoothbores weren’t at all accurate. Hence the invention of rifled muskets. Unfortunately the tactics didn’t change at the same time the muskets did, which is one reason the Civil War was as bloody as it was. The Brown Bess’s lack of accuracy was, of course, made only worse by the fact that few soldiers were actually trained in marksmanship. They were trained to raise their guns to their shoulders and fire on command, and most firearms training focused on firing faster, rather than hitting anything. Riflemen did better because they were often aiming at specific targets, using whatever was available for cover, and of course, in many cases, were experienced hunters who HAD to be good shots or else they would be much thinner. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/32 "2006-01-11T17:33:30Z")
and not forgetting Lord Cardigan in the charge of the light brigade [http://www.victorianweb.org/history/crimea/chargelb.html](http://www.victorianweb.org/history/crimea/chargelb.html) ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/33 "2006-01-11T18:29:17Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Did they? Including whom? I know Richard III got taken down in battle, but I don’t know that he was leading any charges at the time. Richard III actually was leading a charge against Henry Tudor / Henry VII at Bosworth Field when he was killed. In this situation, Henry was the one hanging back. ---
**Author:** ![galen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@galen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/34 "2006-01-12T16:56:50Z")
Now we know why the war in Iraq is going so badly. George Bush and Tony Blair are not leading from the front. Wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/35 "2006-01-12T23:34:47Z")
I think you need to read historical accounts of kings leading from the front with a large grain of salt. I read a detailed account of the Battle of Hastings, and the battle in Northern UK (Battle of Stamford Bridge, was it?). There was much talk of the king “leading” charges, but when you drilled down into the detail, he was totally surrounded by a personal bodyguard comprising the best equipped, strongest and biggest of his soldiers. Getting through the romantic haze to the truth about what actually goes on in a battle is difficult even in relation to the last century. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/36 "2006-01-12T23:36:36Z")
Sorry, that should read "the battle in _what is now_ the Northern UK _immediately before_ the Battle of Hastings. There have of course been many many battles in the Northern UK, and it wasn’t necessarily the UK at the time. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/37 "2006-01-14T19:46:06Z")
I guess the answer to this depends on your definition of ‘lead’ and ‘front’. Certainly, until fairly recently the only way to know what was going on and to be able to command was to be pretty close to the scene of the action. Additionally, having a sufficiently well-trained army that you could send them detailed instructions and have them obeyed has historically been pretty unusual. The majority of battles have probably followed the basic pattern of “follow me lads!! RAAAAAAAAAAR!!!”, and most of the rest probably fall into the “You lot charge over there. The rest of you charge there. No, no, no, not **there** , there. Oh never mind. Bodyguards, follow me. RAAAAAR!!!” And as Paul in Saudi says, in any military organisation you will always need someone to receive the command and put it into action, so at the basic level the NCOs and junior officers will need to be in the front line persuading the poor bloody infantry to do whatever the general thinks is good idea. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/38 "2006-01-15T00:57:36Z")
You kind of don’t want to lead a large army from the front. A battlefield commander needs to be in a position where he can oversee the entire operation and not get distracted by local events. That’s why there’s different ranks of officers. ---
**Author:** ![tygerbryght](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@tygerbryght](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tygerbryght)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/39 "2006-01-15T03:46:48Z")
> [@Coil](#): > > > [@RandomLetters](#): > > > > Too bad he didn’t have any West Virginians to back him up. 🙂 > > 🙂 Heh-heh. It’s easy enough to tell who the 1632-universe readers in the thread are, isn’t it? 🆒 I doubt anyone who has read even the main books is likely ever to forget Captain GARS. Or his special Finnish cavalry units. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224/40 "2006-01-15T04:10:13Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > Keegan states that the American Civil War was among the first in which generals stayed well back from the fighting, controlling their troops from afar. He says that Waterloo was about as big as a battle as a general right on the scene could control personally; after that, battles got much bigger and the general tended to stay offsite and delegate on-site leadership to lower ranks. In the early parts of the Hundred Years’ War, Edward III at Crecy, and his son the Black Prince at Poitiers, ran those respective battles from nearby hilltops, where they could see the battle as a whole and make approprate tactical decisions. The sources I’ve read implied this was considered innovative at the time–certainly the French weren’t doing this, as shown by the capture of France’s King John II at Poitiers … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-lead-from-the-front/339224.md?page=3)