# Did Anyone actually like "Heat"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831 "2005-07-16T21:05:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MadderMitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@MadderMitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadderMitch)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/1 "2005-07-16T21:05:28Z")
It had to be the biggest lamo ever. Pacino and De Nero. Together on screen at last… and… well… STFW??? I mean, honestly, if you think two guys just sitting over there and talking across one dimly lit table is gonna do it for me - you got it plain wrong. I realize these are two icons of the big blue - however even they cannot be afforded the courtesy of pure IDOLATION. It just seemed like two old farts sitting across each other attempting to out-cool each other. The only pluses for me were A.J. and the bank-robbery shoot-out. Seemed realistic (wouldn’t know, never been caught in one). Michael Mann to me is over-rated. Only good film he made was _Collateral_, and really even that’s no absolute masterpiece. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/2 "2005-07-16T21:26:03Z")
Agreed. Over-long, overrated movie. Everyone else seems to love it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/3 "2005-07-16T21:34:30Z")
I liked the movie well enough, but I hated the ending. I mean, it was no **Bullitt** … \ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/4 "2005-07-16T21:38:55Z")
I liked it although I agree it was way too long. I liked the diner scene, two enemies showing their respect before the inevitable clash. The bank robbery was intense, and De Niro was incredibly cool throughout. I liked Mann’s moody evocative direction, which coutnerpointed the savage action nicely. Pacino was kind of annoying though, as he has been for me ever since _Scent of a Woman_. He’s really got to stop playing the same person over and over. The stuff with his family should have stayed on the cutting room floor. ---
**Author:** ![boofuu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@boofuu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boofuu)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/5 "2005-07-16T21:43:22Z")
I was mostly mad because Val Kilmer was given equal billing with DeNiro and Pacino. Seemed…wrong somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/6 "2005-07-16T21:51:32Z")
> [@MadderMitch](#): > > It had to be the biggest lamo ever. I liked _Heat_. I agree its a long–perhaps overlong–film, but aside from the bank heist shootout (not necessarially realistic, but very intense) and the unjustifiably hyped meeting between DeNiro and Pacino (good dialog, good acting, but Scene of the Century?) it was really more of a character piece about a thief and a cop who need each other in order to justify their dysfunctional lives. Thematically, it’s very similar to Sam Peckinpah’s _The Wild Bunch_, which is one of the two or three best Westerns ever made. DeNiro’s performance was great; tightly controlled with a sense of desperation below the surface. (I love how his condo has _no_ furniture; “When I get around to it,” he tells Kilmer.) Pacino is over the top, as is usual in his post-Godfather roles, but it’s appropriate (if occasionally hilarious) here; “She’s got a great ass,” he responds to an informant who rhetorically asks why he got involved with Judd’s character, “and you’ve got your head shoved all the way up it!” There are a lot of nuances in the film, and a lot of development that occurs only in the beginning or end frames of a scene. For Mann, never one of the most intellectual of writer-directors, it is surprisingly subtle, harkening back to his first feature, _Thief_, (which was virtually remade by Brian DePalma as _Carlito’s Way_ over a decade later.) Some of the characters were kind of nonentities; the driver, Carlos, barely has a speaking role; his replacement (the ex-con cook played by Dennis Haysbert) was very intense and deserved a lot more screentime. Val Kilmer, who’s always struck me as more of a character acter, didn’t really seem to make much of an impression, despite his pivotal role; anybody could have played his character. The women (Ashley Judd, Dianne Verona, Amy Brennamen, and a very young Natalie Portman) were all shorted but did well with the lines they had. Anyway, I liked it, but then I’m predispositioned to like any film with DeNiro (the _Meet The \_\_\_\ __and _Analyze \_\_\_\__ films notwithstanding) and I thought he was great here, as he was in the vastly underrated _Ronin_. > [@MadderMitch](#): > > Michael Mann to me is over-rated. Only good film he made was _Collateral_, and really even that’s no absolute masterpiece. I have to agree that Mann is overrated–like Ridley and Tony Scott, he’s (usually) strictly a visionary of style at the expense of characters and plot–but I found _Collateral_ to be an implausible yawnfest dedicated to giving Tom Cruise as many closeups has he liked. (Despite this, Cruise ended up being a supporting player, with Jamie Foxx taking the limelight.) There were numerous irregularities and cheap dodges all the way through the film that progressively turned me off of it. (Come on, the Miles Davis fanatic jazz trumpeteer that doesn’t know a basic detail about Miles’ education? The last target that ends up being Max’s last fare?) I haven’t been impressed by Mann’s previous recent work, either. (Well, I didn’t see _Ali_, but _The Insider_ was massively overblown.) And he is the producer responsible for bringing us that abominable 'Eighties update of _Starchki and Hutch_, _Miami Vice_ (which is his next film project…ugh, another film to skip without consideration.) But I thought _Heat_ was very good, albeit, it could have been better still. If you want to see a real piece of shiite, try finding _L.A. Takedown_, which is virtually the same script but filmed by Mann as a television movie. It’s absolutely dreadful. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/7 "2005-07-16T23:02:33Z")
> [@MadderMitch](#): > > It just seemed like two old farts sitting across each other attempting to out-cool each other. That’s how it felt to me, too. And DeNiro won! As \*\*Stranger \*\* and \*\*Larry \*\* said, DeNiro stayed wonderfully controlled throughout, whereas Pacino went so over-the-top it was embarrassing. I often wondered if he wasn’t intimidated by DeNiro’s presence in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/8 "2005-07-16T23:16:08Z")
Michael Mann is capable of great films. If you haven’t seen it, check out **Thief**. It’s completely character driven and fascinating. These are all of the films directed by Michael Mann: \*\*Collateral Ali The Insider Heat Manhunter Last of the Mohicans Thief The Keep \*\* That is his entire movie output as director. Only ‘The Keep’ would be considered a dog, and even it wasn’t that bad. Mann is a pretty consistent director of stylish, competent movies, and he occasionally rises to near brilliance. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/9 "2005-07-16T23:18:16Z")
I loved it. It’s one of the few movies I’ve ever seen that gave me the same feeling as reading a good novel. Over long? I thought it was maybe too short. ---
**Author:** ![rorty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@rorty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rorty)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/10 "2005-07-17T03:18:14Z")
I liked _Heat_. It features one of my favorite shootouts ever. ---
**Author:** ![Hombre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecb155/32.png) [@Hombre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hombre)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/11 "2005-07-17T03:24:43Z")
Wow, I can’t believe all the negative comments! It’s just a movie. The two-old-farts scene is just a scene. I loved it. I like long movies. Re: MM, he’s just a director doing his job. I think he invests a lot in his movies. I like stylish, I like escapism. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/12 "2005-07-17T03:30:01Z")
Well, count me in the apparent minority of those who liked _Heat_. In fact, I _love_ this movie. Long movies don’t bother me as long as it doesn’t feel like dragging, and this one never gave me that feeling. Just a top-notch film all the way. It’s probably my favorite “cops-and-robbers” flick. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/13 "2005-07-17T04:04:20Z")
Great movie. For me the action stuff and the Big Scene are secondary. It’s a great movie about relationships, first and foremost. The other stuff is window dressing. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/14 "2005-07-17T06:21:22Z")
I liked the diner scene, the shoot-out, and the ending. Heck, I liked the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/15 "2005-07-17T10:44:24Z")
It’s one of the few DVD’s (along with _Body Heat_, _Blade Runner_, _True Romance_, _Sharky’s Machine_ and _The Godfather Collection_) that I own and watch when there’s nothing good on TV. Kevin Gage is one of the main attractions for me; the Waingro character is about as close as you can come to a totally despicable one. And William Fichtner as Van Zant is fine as well. The stars are only part of why this movie works for me. The supporting cast, including the pre-presidential role for Haysbert, is excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Grossbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba8739/32.png) [@Grossbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grossbottom)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/16 "2005-07-17T17:30:51Z")
Love the movie and generally enjoy Mann’s directing. Sure, it was long, but then it was billed as an “epic,” so… Also, best gunfight ever. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/17 "2005-07-17T17:38:39Z")
> [@rorty](#): > > I liked _Heat_. It features one of my favorite shootouts ever. Saw it in a theater, and what I remember from the shootout wasn’t the action. It was the sound of the gunfire. _Very_ realistic sound effects, and quite unlike anything I had seen . . . er, heard . . . up until then. That’s what made it my favorite shootout of all time. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/18 "2005-07-17T21:41:58Z")
I liked this movie as well, my favorite scene was the shootout. I got tired of Pacino after a while and I started to notice the supporting cast. I liked the original driver for the bank heist and regretted his treatment in the movie. I liked the work of the detectives – the actors who played Casals and some other guy (Ted Levine, I believe?) who used the phone and pounded the pavement to come up with clues. I think De Niro did the best work in this film; like the other posters, Pacino plays the same character in each of his movies. ---
**Author:** ![villain71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/4bbf92/32.png) [@villain71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villain71)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/19 "2005-07-17T21:52:48Z")
> [@medstar](#): > > I liked this movie as well, my favorite scene was the shootout. I got tired of Pacino after a while and I started to notice the supporting cast. I liked the original driver for the bank heist and regretted his treatment in the movie. I liked the work of the detectives – the actors who played Casals and some other guy (Ted Levine, I believe?) who used the phone and pounded the pavement to come up with clues. I think De Niro did the best work in this film; like the other posters, Pacino plays the same character in each of his movies. Sorry but I think both of them do the same thing on their movies. What did DenIro do on this film that was so great that he didn’t do on other films? He’s always the cool pissed off guy that gets mad. He’s always got that angry look. His acting on Heat is exactly the same as in The Score & many of his movies. And Pacino does the same gig he does also… he would start to talk calmly and then raises his voice and then eventuall yells. They all do the same thing in most movies they do. I think they’re both overated. All they do is either play a cop, a criminal or a gangster with almost the same friggin type of acting. Marlon Brando owns em both! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831/20 "2005-07-17T21:57:05Z")
Loved _Heat._ Great flick. _Collateral_ rocked, too. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-actually-like-heat/312831.md?page=2)