# Did anyone else survive the sequester? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769 "2013-04-03T20:48:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/21 "2013-04-04T07:01:28Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > In the last days of February, President Obama and other Democrats warned us about the consequences if the sequester was allowed to take place Damn straight. If the White House had just passed a budget like it’s supposed to, we wouldn’t have had any of these problems. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/22 "2013-04-04T10:34:49Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > A boat filling with water rides lower and its maneuverability becomes more diminished. So at what point do you realize the hole in the hull was a bad idea? Maybe the former captain of the Costa Concordia can advise you of his decision process. Double whoosh! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/23 "2013-04-04T11:06:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Under sequester, everything is being cut from 5 to 10 percent. Unfortunately, “everything” doesn’t include snarky right-wing criticism of Obama. That goes up by 15% under the sequester. And then if the sequester is done away with later this year, the potshots increase another 11% on top of that. Well lets, see, He flew back from his vacation in Hawaii to deal with sequestration, accomplished nothing and flew back. He then went on vacation to golf with Tiger Woods while his wife went on a separate vacation. His kids then went on spring break. He then found the need to fly to Colorado to push for gun control. To quote a Democratic sound bite: “it’s the economy stupid”. He’s done nothing toward fixing the budget or job growth and we’re [about to feel the financial burden of the health care bill](http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/02/peek-rising-health-care-costs-5-major-cities/4745/)that so conveniently took affect after the election. If you think criticism is bad now you ain’t seen nothing yet. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/24 "2013-04-04T11:11:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well lets, see, He flew back from his vacation in Hawaii to deal with sequestration, accomplished nothing and flew back. He then went on vacation to golf with Tiger Woods while his wife went on a separate vacation. His kids then went on spring break. He then found the need to fly to Colorado to push for gun control. > > To quote a Democratic sound bite: “it’s the economy stupid”. He’s done nothing toward fixing the budget or job growth and we’re [about to feel the financial burden of the health care bill](http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/02/peek-rising-health-care-costs-5-major-cities/4745/)that so conveniently took affect after the election. If you think criticism is bad now you ain’t seen nothing yet. This is grade A bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/25 "2013-04-04T11:32:15Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This is grade A bullshit. presented with love by the President. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/26 "2013-04-04T11:35:32Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This is grade A bullshit. Come on, Hentor. Don’t you know that after Bush all presidents are unitary executives and can do whatever they want regardless of Congress? Clearly the only reason everything isn’t already fixed is because Obama doesn’t want it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/27 "2013-04-04T11:50:33Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Come on, Hentor. Don’t you know that after Bush all presidents are unitary executives and can do whatever they want regardless of Congress? Clearly the only reason everything isn’t already fixed is because Obama doesn’t want it to be. that would certainly explain is almost non-existent effort working on the budget. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/28 "2013-04-04T12:00:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Damn straight. If the White House had just passed a budget like it’s supposed to, we wouldn’t have had any of these problems. > [@Magiver](#): > > that would certainly explain is almost non-existent effort working on the budget. And it’s Little Nemo for the psychic threadwin. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/29 "2013-04-04T12:28:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > that would certainly explain is almost non-existent effort working on the budget. Sure, and House Republicans are blocking work on it, too. Boehner said the Senate has to “get off its ass” to fix the budget problems, and since then has embraced a “starve the Senate” policy to avoid having to vote on any deficit plans that would actually be balanced. [Link.](http://news.yahoo.com/house-gops-strategy-starve-senate-073447442--politics.html) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/30 "2013-04-04T12:31:41Z")
In the real world a person would be fired for not doing their job. I can’t imagine what it must be like to not only blow off a deadline but to go on vacation and bitch about it after the fact. “hey Tiger, check out this new video player on AF-1, it’s 3D”. “nah, don’t worry about fuel, vacations aren’t affected by sequestration”. “Hey you wanna go to Calorado?” “The girls are there now and I’m heading up there for a speech or something in a few weeks”. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/31 "2013-04-04T13:29:05Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **ITR champion** , did you go to the World Series next year? Opening day was this week, so did you have fun at the thing that didn’t happen yet? > > You probably haven’t figured out that most agencies haven’t actually implemented the cuts yet. Aside from eliminations of work travel and stopping new hires, virtually all of the actual cuts haven’t actually begun yet. FAA control towers shut down over the next month or so. DOD civilians begin furloughs in June. It’s not clear whether Border Patrol agents are going to be furloughed yet, the agency is still working that out. > > So, no, I have neither been impacted by sequestration (well, actually a little, but it ain’t bad) nor have I received my Thanksgiving turkey yet. Stupid Pilgrims… Remember Harold Camping, the preacher who predicted the world that the world would end on May 21, 2011? Do you remember how, a few days after that date, he then predicted that the world would end on Oct. 21, 2011? Do you remember how he was wrong on both occasions? I get the same sort of vibe here. Before the sequester went into effect, the Obama Administration was predicting imminent disaster. For instance, On Feb. 27, Arne Duncan said: “There are literally teachers **now** who are getting pink slips, who are getting notices that they can’t come back this fall.” (Emphasis mine.) It turned out he was lying; he couldn’t give any evidence that any teachers were being pink-slipped now. Likewise many other dire predictions have been moved to unspecific future dates. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/32 "2013-04-04T13:38:33Z")
So now Arne Duncan being wrong on the teacher thing should be taken as evidence that air traffic control towers aren’t going to be closed in a few weeks? Does the Secretary of Education now run the FAA? What do you really think is going to happen? That all the warnings of furloughs will be proven to be lies? “Hey, just kidding, hundreds of thousands of civil servants - we aren’t really going to cut your pay LOL!” ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/33 "2013-04-04T13:51:14Z")
The sequestration is causing a lot of contracts for equipment that government agencies buy (from $1,000 copiers to $2B Navy ships) to be cancelled or greatly reduced. This is causing manufacturers to change their plans, with resulting layoffs. It’s also causing the government to pay the same in some cases for less equipment due to cancellation clauses. So while some might not see this in their day-to-day lives, as a taxpayer, your government is getting less for the same price, something none of us should be happy with. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/34 "2013-04-04T13:57:04Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > All continue to bring in a higher salary than I get Well, then, you need to cut back on your Doping and spend time upgrading your skills until you qualify for one of those better jobs. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/35 "2013-04-04T13:59:47Z")
I’m starting to understand why conseratives don’t get how global warming works. If a problem is immediate and catostrophic, it doesn’t exist. Here are some people who won’t survive the sequester: > [@](#): > > Cancer clinics across the country have begun turning away thousands of Medicare patients, blaming the sequester budget cuts. > > Oncologists say the reduced funding, which took effect for Medicare on April 1, makes it impossible to administer expensive chemotherapy drugs while staying afloat financially. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/03/cancer-clinics-are-turning-away-thousands-of-medicare-patients-blame-the-sequester/?hpid=z2](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/03/cancer-clinics-are-turning-away-thousands-of-medicare-patients-blame-the-sequester/?hpid=z2) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/36 "2013-04-04T14:12:39Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’m starting to understand why conseratives don’t get how global warming works. If a problem is immediate and catostrophic, it doesn’t exist. To be fair, the problem also doesn’t exist if it isn’t happening to them. “I’m not sweating, so obviously global warming doesn’t exist.” “I’m not dying of cancer and unable to get Medicaid treatment, so it isn’t really a problem, either.” ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/37 "2013-04-04T14:20:02Z")
It’s a fool’s game to claim the sequester has come and gone and everything’s fine. The hard fact is, the economic effects of the sequester have yet to arrive. Yes, the administration has to carry a lot of blame for this attitude, with their stories of impending doom on March 1 (and then again “in April”) … but that doesn’t mean the sequester isn’t going to hurt at all. It just hasn’t hurt yet. Like Edward The Head, I work for the FAA (air traffic controller here). Every person working at my facility, whether controller, equipment technician or manager, is taking a 10 percent pay cut (one furlough day every two weeks). This is true of every FAA employee at every tower, approach control and facility nationwide. But guess what? That doesn’t start until the week of April 21. So yeah, nobody’s feeling the effects yet … but spending by we FAA employees is going to drop in our communities throughout the summer and fall. Nearly 150 smaller, contract air traffic control towers will be closing, mostly by the end of April. That’s not a huge amount of employees nationwide, maybe less than a thousand … but they aren’t taking a pay cut, they are out of a job. Their spending power in their communities will be cut to zero. The FAA Academy in Oklahoma City is shutting down. Once the classes in progress are finished, the academy will close for the rest of the fiscal year. There’s a bunch of contract instructors who are out of work, not to mention the affect on training in the facilities (controllers have to go through a radar training course at the academy before they can start radar training in the tower; no academy course means training for new controllers in the field gets delayed or suspended). And that’s just the FAA. Similar stories will be happening for other governmental agencies, not to mention civilian and military employees in heavily DOD areas. A ten percent pay cut across the board is going to be felt in the local economies that depend on military and government salaries … it just hasn’t happened yet. Once the furloughs kick in in late April and continue until October, those places WILL feel it. So let’s not be so quick to say, “Hey, this sequester ain’t so bad! I can’t even tell that spending is gone! Hyuk hyuk hyuk!” MOST OF THE CUTS HAVEN’T HAPPENED YET. But they will, and there will be an impact. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/38 "2013-04-04T14:28:17Z")
Yes without the FAA, airlines will start crashing their multimillion dollar aircraft into eachother. Airlines should finance their own control program instead of taking the subsidy from taxpayers and lenders. The fear in this thread would be comical if it wasn’t just saddening. Oh no! The charts won’t be printed on time! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/39 "2013-04-04T14:29:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > In the real world a person would be fired for not doing their job. I can’t imagine what it must be like to not only blow off a deadline but to go on vacation and bitch about it after the fact. “hey Tiger, check out this new video player on AF-1, it’s 3D”. “nah, don’t worry about fuel, vacations aren’t affected by sequestration”. “Hey you wanna go to Calorado?” “The girls are there now and I’m heading up there for a speech or something in a few weeks”. Well, President Obama has [some good examples to learn from](http://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/president-obamas-vacation-days/), but he has a long way to go before he [breaks the record set by his predecessor](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080201703.html). As for sequestration, as others have noted most of the effects have not yet hit. While it will not be the disaster that the catastrophists have enjoyed prophesying about, not only will hundreds of thousands of government be affected by furloughs and others fired as their positions are eliminated, but there are government contractors dependent upon work that was contracted and will now be suspended indefinitely, which will result in more layoffs and the death knoll of the very same small businesses the current administration has been attempting (for better or worse) to favor. That means that work–such as the deployment of the FAA’s NextGen control system that was planned, competitively bid out, and awarded piecemeal largely to small businesses–will now be delayed, perhaps indefinitely, and the businesses which had planned on that supposed guaranteed work will be without funding to even maintain their payroll. There are similar rollbacks in areas like utility infrastructure and aerospace. This is also going to severely jam up the federal acquisitions system with contract scope and commitment challenges which is already so tied up in regulations it has literally taken years to get RFPs and contracts out to industry that used to take weeks, and will cost untold billions in termination options and renegotiation. Regardless of whose fault it is–and I think there is plenty to distribute across both parties–this sequestration will have long-ranging effects in the support infrastructure, government and military procurement, and even government-funded basic research. Right now, asking “Did anyone else survive the sequester?” is like standing on the deck of Titanic and saying, “Whew! That was a big bang when we hit that iceberg, but I guess we’re all okay now.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769/40 "2013-04-04T14:35:45Z")
Just to add to my disappointment about how the administration and the media handled this whole thing, we do all remember the administration’s dire predictions of terrible things happening March 1, if the sequester was allowed to go into effect. Of course, March 1 came and went, and practically nothing happened (for one thing, federal employees have to get 30 days notice of a furlough, so of course nothing’s happening immediately). So then, word was out that these cuts will start being felt “in April” (once employees got their notices and all the machinery got grinding into motion). That only led to the CNN story I saw Monday, basically saying “Hey, it’s April. Still no signs of sequester disaster! Must have been overblown! Nothing to see here!” (Yeah, that liberal left-leaning CNN just parroting Obama’s talking points, right?) All this did was play into the hands of people like ITR Champion, who can come here and crow about how the sequester isn’t having any impact at all and it was all a big sham. To (sort of) quote from Game of Thrones: “Job cuts are coming.” As noted above, spending cuts on equipment and supplies is already starting to happen; the cuts in pay/furloughs to pretty much EVERY federal employee haven’t started yet, but they are going to happen in one more pay period. To crow this will have no impact on the economy because you haven’t seen anything happen yet is wrong. The sequester (despite what the administration claimed) isn’t a bolt of lightning hitting your house all at once; it’s a gradual erosion of the hillside next to your foundation that’s going to cumulatively cause us grief. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-anyone-else-survive-the-sequester/654769.md?page=3)