# Did Ben Franklin create, "For Want of a Nail?" Or did it originate even earlier?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [February 16, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421 "2005-02-16T21:17:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421/1 "2005-02-16T21:17:15Z")
signed, Poor Richard Lacks-The-Knack
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421/2 "2005-02-16T21:25:50Z")
All I see when I Google is “author unknown.” Franklin did use it in Poor Richard’s, but it probably long antedates him.
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### Author:  [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421/3 "2005-02-16T21:36:36Z")
Does the OED have a cite?
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421/4 "2005-02-17T00:35:10Z")
According to my Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, it can be found as early as 15th century French. So, not Franklin.
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### Author:  [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421/5 "2005-02-17T02:45:53Z")
I meant ODQ, not OED. Thanks, **sam**. So the saying is originally French.
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [February 17, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421/6 "2005-02-17T05:14:00Z")
> [@Askia](#):
>
> I meant ODQ, not OED. Thanks, **sam**. So the saying is originally French.
NOt necessarily. Just first written appearance.
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### Author:  [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421/7 "2005-02-18T03:31:51Z")
> [@Askia](#):
>
> signed, Poor Richard Lacks-The-Knack
George Herbert: \*Jacula Prudentum \* (1651)
Evans, Bergan, Dictionary of Quotations, Delacorte Press, New York, 1968, p.475.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421/8 "2005-02-18T04:10:07Z")
> [@Ignatz](#):
>
> George Herbert: \*Jacula Prudentum \* (1651)
>
> Evans, Bergan, Dictionary of Quotations, Delacorte Press, New York, 1968, p.475.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Surely 1651 is much later than the 15th century so this can’t be the origin. Is this the first appearance in English? Are you trying to scold Evans for poor scholarship? Why the post?
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-ben-franklin-create-for-want-of-a-nail-or-did-it-originate-even-earlier/290421/9 "2005-02-18T13:57:20Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#):
>
> I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Surely 1651 is much later than the 15th century so this can’t be the origin. Is this the first appearance in English? Are you trying to scold Evans for poor scholarship? Why the post?
My _guess_ is that **Ignatz** is citing the first \*written English \*occurrence. Have pity on him; if you were a mouse who’d been hit with bricks by a Krazy Kat for 60 years running, you’d be less than coherent too! 😉