# Did Benedict resign because of involvement in the priestly child molestation coverup? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078 "2013-02-12T14:17:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/101 "2013-02-15T23:25:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Child abuse isn’t, strictly speaking, a crime against humanity. But it should be, right? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/102 "2013-02-18T15:25:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There are some very interesting twists to this story today: I’m not sure if it’s true because it sort of feels like wishful thinking, but there are some media reports in Italy that Benedict is going to meet with the president of Italy next week to discuss immunity from prosecution. But [I see other reports that he’s going to live in the Vatican full time (after some renovations are complete), which might give him legal immunity anyway.](http://news.yahoo.com/pope-security-immunity-remaining-vatican-185854114.html) [Lateran Treaty](http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/society/lateran-treaty.html) > [@](#): > > Italy guarantees Vatican City public services and protection and recognizes as parts of it certain buildings not actually inside Vatican City. The Italian government will punish crimes committed within Vatican City, when so requested, and the Holy See will extradite to Italy persons accused of acts recognized by both parties as crimes. Although I bet covering up crimes isn’t illegal in Vatican Land ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/103 "2013-02-18T19:29:05Z")
Paraphrasing our favorite Quaker\*: “When the Pope does it, that means that it is not illegal…” Okay, _second_ favorite. After the guy on the oatmeal box. Oh, and William Penn. Third fav-- wait BENJAMIN FRANKLIN! I’ll come in again. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/104 "2013-02-19T00:42:28Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Although I bet covering up crimes isn’t illegal in Vatican Land The Vatican City State has adopted the Italian Criminal Code. If it’s a crime in Italy, it’s a crime in the Vatican. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/105 "2013-02-19T02:34:59Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I also take his life as a whole, however much that may anger those in the anti catholic movement, and see tons of overwhelming good he did. This is a good point. His service to the Nazis shouldn’t be overlooked just because he became a rape apologist in later life. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/106 "2013-02-19T02:39:23Z")
He didn’t do any service for the Nazis. With all the things he’s done as a cardinal and as Pope to pick on, it’s a distraction and kind of a mean-spirited one to play that card. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/107 "2013-02-19T02:50:54Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > I’m not sure former heads of state have blanket immunity for crimes against humanity… [Even current heads of state have no blanket immunity for drug-related crimes, apparently.](http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/07/us-france-panama-noriega-idUSTRE6662BJ20100707) I don’t know if crimes against humanity count, though. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/108 "2013-02-19T04:23:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There are some very interesting twists to this story today: I’m not sure if it’s true because it sort of feels like wishful thinking, but there are some media reports in Italy that Benedict is going to meet with the president of Italy next week to discuss immunity from prosecution. The (sole) source for this claim appears to be the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State which, despite its impressive sounding name, is a private organization formed for the purpose of convening extrajudicial “trials” of people they deem to have done wrong. They are not a news organization and they have not (yet) provided any support or evidence for their claim that the pope is meeting with the Italian president for any reason whatsoever. Every story I have found on this issue leads directly back to the ITCC press release. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/109 "2013-02-19T04:34:43Z")
That was how it looked to me, too. They’re not very good at hiding their biases either: they can’t even swallow their bile long enough to call him by his papal name. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/110 "2013-02-19T09:42:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He didn’t do any service for the Nazis. With all the things he’s done as a cardinal and as Pope to pick on, it’s a distraction and kind of a mean-spirited one to play that card. Enlighten us then. What ‘good’ has this person done and how does it stack up against covering up child abuse, let alone doing nothing else about the many ongoing crimes against humanity the Catholic Church routinely engages in (contraception, AIDS, homosexuality, money laundering and other financial crimes etc etc) when he was in a position to do so? So far as I can see at most his ‘good deeds’ consists of no more than pious-sounding hot air words about a few issues. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/111 "2013-02-19T09:45:46Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The (sole) source for this claim appears to be the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State which, despite its impressive sounding name, is a private organization formed for the purpose of convening extrajudicial “trials” of people they deem to have done wrong. > > They are not a news organization and they have not (yet) provided any support or evidence for their claim that the pope is meeting with the Italian president for any reason whatsoever. > > Every story I have found on this issue leads directly back to the ITCC press release. Yea - these are a bunch of private citizens with no standing. Nothing to see there. But being biased against a world-wide organisation that appears dedicated to doing evil is no bad thing. The CC needs more bias against it and the world needs an organisation with the guts to actually take it on. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/112 "2013-02-19T18:04:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He didn’t do any service for the Nazis. With all the things he’s done as a cardinal and as Pope to pick on, it’s a distraction and kind of a mean-spirited one to play that card. He _was_ in the Hitler Youth and fought in the German infantry, both reportedly by conscription, and his actual involvement my have been minimal. The reason I mentioned it is at the time he became Pope I remember a lot of people saying you can’t judge a man’s entire life by his actions when he was very young during a difficult time. And maybe that’s true. Now people like Tollhouse seem to be making the same argument about his later life and his involvement with molestation cases. Maybe it’s a stretch, and there were a lot of decades in-between, but it seems to me there’s a man in there that spans the two scenarios that lacked the courage or conviction to challenge the status quo, no matter how heinous the status quo might have been. It’s probably not reasonable to expect a 14 year old boy to stand up to the Nazis when it could cost him everything, but it sure as shit seems reasonable to expect one of the most powerful men in the world to stand up for a bunch of innocent children when it costs him nothing, particularly when he’s the head of an organization that claims the meek shall inherit the earth. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/113 "2013-02-19T18:48:05Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > He didn’t do any service for the Nazis. With all the things he’s done as a cardinal and as Pope to pick on, it’s a distraction and kind of a mean-spirited one to play that card. > > Enlighten us then. What ‘good’ has this person done and how does it stack up against covering up child abuse, let alone doing nothing else about the many ongoing crimes against humanity the Catholic Church routinely engages in (contraception, AIDS, homosexuality, money laundering and other financial crimes etc etc) when he was in a position to do so? > > So far as I can see at most his ‘good deeds’ consists of no more than pious-sounding hot air words about a few issues. 😕 Where did **Marley23** make any claims about Benedict’s “good deeds”? Rather, ISTM that what **Marley23** was clearly saying is that there are plenty of actual **not** -good deeds from his cardinalship and papacy to criticize him for, rather than making up unfounded accusations of Nazism. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/114 "2013-02-19T18:51:25Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Paraphrasing our favorite Quaker\*: “When the Pope does it, that means that it is not illegal…” > > Okay, _second_ favorite. After the guy on the oatmeal box. Oh, and William Penn. Third fav-- wait BENJAMIN FRANKLIN! > > I’ll come in again. Benjamin Franklin was a Quaker? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/115 "2013-02-19T18:57:11Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Enlighten us then. What ‘good’ has this person done and how does it stack up against covering up child abuse, let alone doing nothing else about the many ongoing crimes against humanity the Catholic Church routinely engages in (contraception, AIDS, homosexuality, money laundering and other financial crimes etc etc) when he was in a position to do so? > [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 Where did **Marley23** make any claims about Benedict’s “good deeds”? Right. The next time I say anything about his good deeds will probably be the first. I did say that there are so many legitimate things to criticize him about that there’s no good reason to bring up the Hitler Youth thing. > [@Dumbguy](#): > > He _was_ in the Hitler Youth and fought in the German infantry, both reportedly by conscription, and his actual involvement my have been minimal. Yes, he was reportedly conscripted in the Hitler Youth as a teenager. No, he didn’t fight with the German infantry. He was assigned to an anti-aircraft division - I’m not sure if he actually did anything other than continue his studies - and deserted after a few months. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/116 "2013-02-19T20:02:06Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Benjamin Franklin was a Quaker? Psst… [sub]The joke is he’s hinting at, but not actually naming, Richard Nixon.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/117 "2013-02-19T20:24:56Z")
Sorry, **Cheshire Human** ; while I was actually hinting at RMN, I had actually thought Franklin was a Quaker. Now I have to wrack my brain and try to reconstruct where I got that Idea in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/118 "2013-02-19T23:57:42Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Yea - these are a bunch of private citizens with no standing. Nothing to see there. > > But being biased against a world-wide organisation that appears dedicated to doing evil is no bad thing. The CC needs more bias against it and the world needs an organisation with the guts to actually take it on. If you get an organization, either an actual governmental judicial organization or a private group, that has actual evidence they wish to present, I have no problem with that. The point is that with their impressive sounding name, the ITTC news release regarding meetings with the Italian president appears to have some sort of substance. However, regardless what wonderful motives they may have, it now appears that their claim of a papal/presidential meeting is simply something they invented out of their own wishful thinking. Actual information? Bring it out. Manufactured outrage with invented stories? _meh_ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078/119 "2013-02-20T00:02:50Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Sorry, **Cheshire Human** ; while I was actually hinting at RMN, I had actually thought Franklin was a Quaker. > > Now I have to wrack my brain and try to reconstruct where I got that Idea in the first place. One word: Philadelphia. Oh, and the hat. Whoops, that’s more than one word… I’ll come in again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-benedict-resign-because-of-involvement-in-the-priestly-child-molestation-coverup/650078.md?page=5)