Tollhouse, I’ve been RC from birth up until very recently and while I don’t think there’s any such thing as an “anti-Catholic movement” I agree there is quite a lot of misinformation and misrepresentation about the RC church.
But the idea that the media has created or even mistated the dimensions of the abuse problem in the RC church, or that the Church has not enabled the abuse and protected the abusers at every level up until very recently, is mind-blowing to me. I’ve never heard this expressed by even the most conservative of Roman Catholics. Nor is it the position taken by any diocese I’ve heard of, even those in which widespread abuse has been uncovered.
No, this is grasping at straws. While i grant that it’s possible a false claim or two exists, I don’t think there’s any way to reasonably conclude that the bulk of the accusations were untrue.
Because while I have not represented any of the folks myself, I know many lawyers who have, and I was involved in a peripheral way in some decisions about how the cases (and prevention of further abuses) were to be handled in my own diocese.
There have certainly been some false claims and the Church was at fault IMO in discouraging those priests who really were falsely accused from defending themselves.
But everyone I have known involved in this matter, including high levels of church administration and decision-making, is convinced that the problem was enormous and was actively concealed, not only causing much greater harm to the victims and their families but actually allowing many more children to be abused. There’s simply no question about that.
You have also I think failed to give proper consideration to the great courage it requires, even though the church has decided not to force those who have legitimate claims to prove their cases in court (and I see no moral alternative to that decision) of reliving these kinds of experiences. Many of the victims have remained faithful to the church and had to steel themselves to do something antithetical to what they had been told and taught all their lives; many others have had to deal with great turmoil in themselves and their families as a result of coming forward.
As to the original post, I do not think it likely that the Pope is resigning for any reason related to the abuse of children by priests. It does not fit with his personality and conduct in the past and does not make sense given that his actions are already known and have been for some time.
Because they didn’t happen. Not to this extent, and not on this scale, and not with the involvement of an enormous worldwide power structure. It’s hard to compare other large religions to Catholicism in that sense.
If half of the them didn’t happen, there were still tens of thousands of cases of abuse.
I don’t know that the churches settled “easily,” and if they did, I’d say perhaps it’s because they knew they were going to lose. There are thousands of pending lawsuits, so accusations don’t lead to some kind of instant payday. And like I said, this isn’t just about lawsuits. Hundreds of priests have been charged or convicted in criminal court.
There are and have been many cases of child abuse by clergy in other denominations besides the RC church; in fact I believe I’ve seen insurance stats indicating that RC priests are not statistically more likely than other priests, ministers and rabbis (yes, churches buy insurance for this).
But remember that many of the cases are decades old, so that the abuse took place at a time when the RC church had many more members and and many more priests than other denominations, aloong with a culture and tradition that allowed and encouraged silence, and a centralized structure that systemized the coverup in a unique way.
I would add to what Marley said about settling because the church knows that many of these cases are losers (especially in the case of preists who abused more than one child and then was transferred to another parish to do it again to another kid), that at least i part the Church’s response has been motivated by a recognition that it is immoral to further punish these people by draggiing them through court, and even a desire to make thiings as right as possible at this late date. Roman Catholics are not all, or even in the majority, bad people, and most of us feel shock, horror and guilt at what was allowed to happen to so many children.
The Catholic church is largely guilty, but there is some truth to your point about the media. No doubt, they pushed the knife in deeper when they had the chance. Because the media emphasizes stories reflecting negatively on straight white Christian men, whereas the fear of being seen as culturally insensitive often precludes similarly aggressive reporting when the spotlight is shining on traditionally less powerful groups, the discernment you mention is a good idea.
Im still out so typing on my little phome, so just a quick reply as is hard typing on this…as soon as the media put their spin on it and it became known how the Church was settling easily (this does not for anyone who knows law necesarily mean guilt,there can be other valid reasons for settling, ) but there soon became a bunch of people who suddnely turned up, wanting to report abuse . If you think only one or two people would be willing to do this for money, you have more faith in himan nature than I do. Recovered memories were the basis of many of these lawsuits, this is a controversial psychological technique and results can be false for a variety of reasons. Suddenly everyone and their grandma showed up claiming they got molested too. Anyone who works with children knows theres the posibility of false allegations. Got to gset home so I can type better on computer.
Kayaker writes “shut up”…great argument there, awesome debate skills you have. I could (if I want to sound like Im in seventh grade) say the same (shut up) to y(u for not honoring those who truly are molested and for thinking its ok to falsely accuse people. Oh, just shu…nevermind, I dont want to resort to that style of “debate”
Then the church should have known that, too, and only settled certain cases. Weirdly, even knowing that, they’re settling a lot of lawsuits and priests are still being convicted and sentenced to prison. What’s really repulsive is that once in a while, you can find an old priest who will slip up and say he feels sorry for the child molesters.
¡I am a personal injury lawyer and was Catholic for a long time, as well as having involvement in the response to these claims. So I do know a bit about it, and again am very curious as to the source of your information.
What you have said is not consistent with the results of investigations into the majority of these claims. And I am referring to investigation conducted by the Church and its lawyers.
Kayaker, you must have water on the brain from all that time kayaking. I am not defending anyone who really did rape a little boy…I am just against the false accusations of those who didnt rape anyone. I hope if you or anyone you know is ever falsely accused of a crime you would want some discerning person somewhere to notice its false. The false claims dishonor those who truly were raped.
But you said “everyone and their grandmother” showed up to file false claims, clearly claiming that a high percentage of these claims were manufactured (having earlier strongly implied that the media manufactured much of the phenomenon).
I think you ought to clarify where you obtained this special knowledge, which is contrary to the information gleaned by those who have investigated the claims.
Because, frankly, if you are simply assuming that people who have come forward with evidence of abuse by priests as children are liars, that really is reprehensible.
Every living person who was sued or accused had access to legal representation and due process, and I expect most of them had very substantial financial resources because of their connections to the church. Nobody came to their homes and said “someone said you molested them, so give me all your money.” There have been a staggering number of claims and the church doesn’t deny there was a widespread problem. They acknowledge that hundreds of priests abused children. They just don’t think they have to do much else about it and their response to the problem has been shaky, which brings us back to Benedict. He was involved in the church’s investigation of the abuse and he is now the third Pope to be well aware of what was happening and to respond in a totally inadequate way. If you were feeling charitable maybe you could say his response has been the least inadequate. I don’t feel qualified to say that myself. If false claims are wrong - and they are, of course - what about casting doubt on large numbers of innocent people just because you don’t like what they are saying? Why choose to feel picked on?
Damm im so tired ,just got home, but ill briefly reply for now…im not the first person to point out the anti Catholic bent in the media. I will say it once more, Im grieved by true cases but also grieved for cases where someones falsely accused. It dishonors the true victims to exploit their tragedy to stir up false stories, in order to further their (media) agenda. Im pro vigorous truth telling and anti false accusations. If someone you know is ever falsely accused of somthing, im thinking you would be thankful for anyone discerning enough not to blindly swallow false claims. Cherrypicking by lawyers, victim groups and the media were quite effective in passing their stories by with little external scrutiny. One quik example.before I go sleep was stories presented by media of very old cases where conveniently the alleged perpetrator was already very old and infirm or dead, therby creating a one way story. Waves of alleged victims also surfaced claiming they suddenly recovered memories of abuse, often these would be old priests either too senile or infirm or dead to speak up in the false cases…too tired, write more when I can,i suspect though that those who tend to take medias word with little to no scrutiny will never consider posibility the media did some manipulating