# Did Bush actually call the Constitution "just a goddamned piece of paper"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156 "2006-01-03T00:27:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/21 "2006-01-03T09:39:26Z")
What’s the big deal? Is it parchment or papyrus or something? :: d&r :: ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/22 "2006-01-03T11:33:27Z")
> [@](#): > > “Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.” This is what makes the story totally unbelievable. To think that one of Bush’s aides would ever dare say anything even remotely critical defies any semblence of reality. Even if true, so what? All of us say things in the heat of the moment that we don’t really mean. You can’t hold a man accountable for every word he utters in private. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/23 "2006-01-03T15:05:30Z")
It wouldn’t be unheard of for someone to try to sweeten a story upon the retelling by portraying himself in a more noble way than actually occurred, perhaps imagining the words being spoken by a handsome actor in the film version. If no competing version of the story emerges, that becomes the truth. **Bob** , the story refers to “Republican leaders”, suggesting Congressmen/Senators rather than his own aides. It’s less incredible that they’d speak up. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/24 "2006-01-03T15:19:22Z")
I’d expected an Evangelical Christian would have chimed in to express incredulity over their President having broken the first commandment. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/25 "2006-01-03T16:14:29Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This is what makes the story totally unbelievable. To think that one of Bush’s aides would ever dare say anything even remotely critical defies any semblence of reality. Even if true, so what? All of us say things in the heat of the moment that we don’t really mean. You can’t hold a man accountable for every word he utters in private. That goes too far. Do you imagine that there is no debate at Presidential staff meetings? But in a narrower sense, I agree with your point. A subordinate, as vocal as he might be in private, would never make such a statement with outsiders present, and the story makes it clear that members of Congress were in the room. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/26 "2006-01-03T16:22:58Z")
Elvis, you have a very good point. Bush’s aides would never say such a thing, but a Congressional aide (if he was quite courageous) might. I think it far more likely that if a congressional aide felt strongly about something, he’d discuss it in private with his boss. That’s how I’d behave as an aide, anyway. But some may feel empowered to speak in such a manner. Random, yes indeedy I do believe that there is no substantive debate in the White House. I believe the changeovers at Treasury and State are testament to that- you parrot Bush or you’re gone. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/27 "2006-01-03T18:13:33Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > What are the odds \ that they’d spill their guts to an obscure, left-wing blogger? Don’t be silly. He knew better than to represent himself as a left-wing blogger. He simply represented himself as a gay military escort. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/28 "2006-01-03T20:42:43Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > I’d expected an Evangelical Christian would have chimed in to express incredulity over their President having broken the first commandment. “I am the Lord thy God, who brought you out of slavery in Egypt. Thou shalt not have any gods before me.”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/29 "2006-01-03T20:57:28Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > “I am the Lord thy God, who brought you out of slavery in Egypt. Thou shalt not have any gods before me.”? Exactly. The god Halliburton never led nobody out of Egypt. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/30 "2006-01-03T21:04:14Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > “I am the Lord thy God, who brought you out of slavery in Egypt. Thou shalt not have any gods before me.”? I believe **Captain** was talking about the second Catholic one. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/31 "2006-01-03T23:04:18Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I believe **Captain** was talking about the second Catholic one. > > Daniel “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”? ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/32 "2006-01-03T23:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > “Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.” Actually, that bit sounds like dialogue from “The West Wing”. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/33 "2006-01-04T00:05:17Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > Actually, that bit sounds like dialogue from “The West Wing”. no shit. I think we may have tracked this urban myth to ground… ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/34 "2006-01-04T00:12:05Z")
I believe that upon careful textual analysis, we may confirm that the story is, alas, a canard. Bush is, as we know, slow to metaphor, suspicious of simile. As reported, the sentence flows smoothly from start to finish, with no stammers, no “uh”'s It should say, if true: “The , the ,…theee um, Con, constitution? That’s, um, that’s nothin’, …nothin’ but a uh, a uh, scrap, a scrap of paper.” I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/35 "2006-01-04T12:59:15Z")
To those who call Capitol Hill Blue a “lefty blog”–they’ve been around for a long time, and they famously published a lot of the more ridiculous and unsubstantiated stories about Bill Clinton. Any relationship between their stories and the truth is entirely coincidental. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/36 "2006-01-04T16:42:42Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > To those who call Capitol Hill Blue a “lefty blog”–they’ve been around for a long time, and they famously published a lot of the more ridiculous and unsubstantiated stories about Bill Clinton. You seem to be assuming that Clinton was a leftist…or more importantly that LEFTISTS thought he was a leftist. 😛 As for the OP…well, I think enough has been said on it at this point. If some real proof comes out that Bush actually did say this (in anger or coldly), well…I won’t be voting for Bush next time either. 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/37 "2006-01-04T17:58:00Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > “The , the ,…theee um, Con, constitution? That’s, um, that’s nothin’, …nothin’ but a uh, a uh, scrap, a scrap of paper.” C’mon, that’s not fair. “Consti–Constitutible? heh heh. The Constitutibles are made of paper, that’s the lesson of 9/11! heh heh heh.” Daniel ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/38 "2006-01-04T20:11:12Z")
I’m with Captain Amazing. If he actually said it, I’d think “What a dumbassed thing to blurt out in anger, especially when you’re the Pres” but beyond that… I’d be more amazed at the thoughtless stupidity than outraged that he verbally crapped on my country’s founding document. I mean, what, this is supposed to be THE SMOKING GUN proving he doesn’t care about separation of powers, freedoms, constitutionality, motherhood, and apple pie? I’d rack it up to stupidity and hotheadedness, not necessarily a personal credo (or party platform). ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156/39 "2006-01-04T20:59:50Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > You seem to be assuming that Clinton was a leftist…or more importantly that LEFTISTS thought he was a leftist. 😛 > > -XT Bill Clinton made the left nostalgic for Richard Nixon (who was left of Clinton on most important issus, INCLUDING habeas corpus–Nixon would have cut his hand off before siging the 1996 Gutting of Habeas Corpus and Guaranteeing The Execution of Innocents Act) The horror, the horror… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-actually-call-the-constitution-just-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/338156.md?page=1)