# Did Bush ever try to include Democrats to the extent that Obama has? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209 "2009-02-10T14:03:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/1 "2009-02-10T14:03:45Z")
Did Bush ever try to include Democrats to the extent that Obama has **when Republicans were the majority parties in Congress**? By this I mean, did he ever go to Capitol Hill to talk with Congressional Democrats? Did he ever invite Congressional Democrats to the White House for talks? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/2 "2009-02-10T14:30:25Z")
[This](http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2005/12/iraq-051214-voa05.htm) seems to suggest Bush met with Congressional Democrats in December of 2005, when the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress. I think every President meets with opposition congressional delegations in the White House, or at least most modern Presidents. But what “matters” is how much input does the President give these people? You can meet with the opposition all day long but if you control both houses of congress then you don’t actually **have** to give their ideas any substantive backing; although I think horse trading is always wise. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/3 "2009-02-10T14:46:03Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > Did Bush ever try to include Democrats to the extent that Obama has? I’d say no. It’s fairly obvious that Obama has plainly included the Democrats _far_ more than Bush ever could have. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/4 "2009-02-10T14:54:52Z")
Keep in mind, too, that while Bush and Obama both have made bipartisan overtures early on in their administrations (we will see if this continues for Obama) what the parties do in Congress is another matter. And let’s face it - Pelosi and Reid aren’t looking to govern in a bipartisan fashion. Neither are Durbin, Schumer, Hoyer or Van Hollen. And if the Republicans were to miraculously take over, their leadership would include McConnell, Kyl, Boehner and Cantor - pretty much the functional equivalents of the Democratic list when we discuss partisanship. ---
**Author:** ![shallora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@shallora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shallora)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/5 "2009-02-10T14:55:26Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > Did Bush ever try to include Democrats to the extent that Obama has? This implies that Obama has. Obama has not. So far, Congressional Democrats (esp. Pelosi, Ried, Kerry) have railroaded Obama into most decisions Obama has made. Obama has largely ignored any input from Congressional Republicans at all, and to date has only met with the GOP minority leader once (as of this writing). To sum up: Congress (which has a dismal 20% approval rating) is so far controlling Obama (who has more than a 60% approval rating). What’s wrong with this picture? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/6 "2009-02-10T15:00:41Z")
That’s right. The stimulus bill from the house is one of the least-bipartisan bills ever. Republicans weren’t consulted on it in any way. They weren’t allowed to make any significant changes. It was basically rammed down their throats. If Obama wanted to be really bipartisan, he could have gone to the House and told them to draft a bill that had reasonable Republican support or he’d refuse to support it, and if the final compromise bill still had no Republican support he would refuse to sign it. But so far, he hasn’t done that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/7 "2009-02-10T15:03:17Z")
> [@shallora](#): > > This implies that Obama has. > > Obama has not. > > So far, Congressional Democrats (esp. Pelosi, Ried, Kerry) have railroaded Obama into most decisions Obama has made. Obama has largely ignored any input from Congressional Republicans at all, and to date has only met with the GOP minority leader once (as of this writing). > > To sum up: Congress (which has a dismal 20% approval rating) is so far controlling Obama (who has more than a 60% approval rating). What’s wrong with this picture? I agree that Obama largely outsourced the drafting of this stimulus to House and Senate Democrats and thus destroyed any chance for bipartisanship in it - because of how things work there. But how was Kerry involved? I haven’t seen him do much of anything lately, which fits with his general work habit in life. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/8 "2009-02-10T15:15:00Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I agree that Obama largely outsourced the drafting of this stimulus to House and Senate Democrats and thus destroyed any chance for bipartisanship in it - because of how things work there.. Do you suppose his being a Senator previously hampers him here? After all, it was only a couple of months ago that Reid was effectively his boss. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/9 "2009-02-10T15:20:22Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Republicans weren’t consulted on it in any way. I do not think that word means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/10 "2009-02-10T15:24:18Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Do you suppose his being a Senator previously hampers him here? After all, it was only a couple of months ago that Reid was effectively his boss. I think that President Obama is inclined to have legislation originate in Congress because of his own constitutional philosophy and the fact that his party controls the place right now. The problem is that if he is serious about including Republicans in legislation and being an agent of bipartisanship - he’ll have to take the lead on that. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi haven’t shown themselves up to this particular task. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/11 "2009-02-10T15:25:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > That’s right. The stimulus bill from the house is one of the least-bipartisan bills ever. Of course. Every congress sets a new record for the least-bipartisan bill ever, under marching orders from the most liberal president ever :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/12 "2009-02-10T15:34:19Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Of course. Every congress sets a new record for the least-bipartisan bill ever, under marching orders from the most liberal president ever :rolleyes: Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/13 "2009-02-10T15:48:06Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > Did Bush ever try to include Democrats to the extent that Obama has **when Republicans were the majority parties in Congress**? By this I mean, did he ever go to Capitol Hill to talk with Congressional Democrats? Did he ever invite Congressional Democrats to the White House for talks? [Yes, and from the start.](http://www.bookrags.com/highbeam/bush-is-a-hit-at-democratic-retreat-hb/) Nearly all presidents will have the opposition in for meetings, including at the White House. It all means precious little if the president does not take seriously what they say and compromise to some extent. I’m not a huge fan of bipartisanship for its own sake. But for those who are, it’s easy to forget that Bush did make major efforts in this regard. When Obama starts letting Republicans co-author legislation on his major goals (e.g. No Child Left Behind), or getting significant Republican support for controversial initiatives (e.g. Immigration Reform, Medicare, Iraq), then you could argue he’s reached Bush’s level. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/14 "2009-02-10T15:58:53Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Of course. Every congress sets a new record for the least-bipartisan bill ever, under marching orders from the most liberal president ever :rolleyes: :rolleyes: _sigh_[And so it goes . . .](http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/02/10/tomo/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/15 "2009-02-10T16:00:28Z")
[And here’s the cost of bipartisanship:](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/406028/more_bipartisanship_less_stimulus) > [@](#): > > The Senate plan is dramatically more weighted than the House bill toward tax cuts (which account for more than 40 percent of the overall cost of the package). This is despite the fact that there is a growing consensus – among even conservative economists and policy makers – that tax cuts will do little or nothing to stimulate job creation in a country that lost almost 600,000 positions in January alone. As French President Nicolas Sarkozy, no liberal, said Friday of countries that opt for tax cuts rather than stimulus: The approach “will bring them nothing” in the way of economic regeneration. > > The Senate’s increased emphasis on tax cuts comes at the expense of the aggressive spending in key areas that might actually get a stalled economy moving. > > Spending for school construction that would actually have put people to work – while at the same time investing in the future – has been slashed. (Almost $20 billion slated for school construction is gone.) > > Money for Superfund cleanup, Head Start and Early Start child care, energy efficiency initiatives and historic preservation projects – all of which create or maintain existing jobs – has been cut. > > Supplemental transportation funding has been hacked. > > The House’s proposal to help unemployed Americans maintain their health benefits has been chopped down. > > Axed, as well, has been $90 million that was to have been allocated to plan for and manage a potential flu pandemic that economists and public health experts worry could shutter remaining businesses, bring the economy to a complete standstill and throw the country into a deep depression. > > The bottom line is that, under the Senate plan: > > - States will get less aid. > > - Schools will get less help. > > - Job creation programs will be less well funded. > > - Preparations to combat potential public health disasters – which could put the final nail in the economy’s coffin – will not be made. All that to get **three** Pub Senate votes. Dems, you **won!** Grow a fucking spine already! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/16 "2009-02-10T16:11:54Z")
If the stimulus is needed to save the economy, how do they justify trimming it back to placate the repubs who caused the mess? The repubs did the damage when they were in charge. They should sit down and shut up. To watch one repub after another walk up to the senate floor and claim they are after fiscal responsibility is a joke. Their mantra was "deficits don’t matter’. They proved clearly that that was their belief. Now a dem is in charge ,lets start cutting back. The repubs have nothing to stand on. it is time for responsible adults to take over. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/17 "2009-02-10T16:16:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Republicans weren’t consulted on it in any way. They weren’t allowed to make any significant changes. It was basically rammed down their throats. And this is different from most of the Bush administration how? At least this VP isn’t telling people from the other party to “Go fuck” themselves on the floor of congress. I’m not saying its good to have no input from another side, but this is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. I hope there is bipartisan input but there’s a reason that the Republicans don’t have a controlling number of seats anymore.. And that reason is their own doing. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/18 "2009-02-10T16:28:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > That’s right. The stimulus bill from the house is one of the least-bipartisan bills ever. Republicans weren’t consulted on it in any way. They weren’t allowed to make any significant changes. It was basically rammed down their throats. > > If Obama wanted to be really bipartisan, he could have gone to the House and told them to draft a bill that had reasonable Republican support or he’d refuse to support it, and if the final compromise bill still had no Republican support he would refuse to sign it. But so far, he hasn’t done that. Bull. The repubs sabotaged this program from the senate floor. They trimmed billions off the bill. How is that no influence? Obama had sit downs with many republican leaders. They had give and take before the bill was even brought up. And that was after a repub era in which they absolutely suppressed any dem input. If you saw the bankruptcy bill the repubs pushed through a few years ago ,you would see what pricks they were. The dems wanted to exempt people with catastrophic illnesses from the bill. They wanted to exempt soldiers who kept returning to Iraq from the bill. They wanted to exempt seniors on fixed incomes. The repube voted 100 % to kill every dem measure. That is republican majority in action. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/19 "2009-02-10T16:30:08Z")
**Sam** , you are conveniently forgetting, or else were never told by your filtered sources, that in Bush’s early years the House Democrats weren’t even allowed to \*see \*the budget. :dubious: How do you account for all the concessions and cuts in the Senate version of the stimulus bill? Or for the refusal of any House Republicans at all to vote for the thing? Cut the crap. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/20 "2009-02-10T16:37:31Z")
> [@clayton\_e](#): > > I hope there is bipartisan input but there’s a reason that the Republicans don’t have a controlling number of seats anymore.. And that reason is their own doing. Oh, I don’t deny that. But you guys have to decide whether turnabout is fair play, or whether you want that different kind of leader Obama campaigned as. Make your choice, and the voters will have a chance to judge you a few years hence. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209.md?page=2)