# Did Bush ever try to include Democrats to the extent that Obama has? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209 "2009-02-10T14:03:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/21 "2009-02-10T16:42:22Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Oh, I don’t deny that. But you guys have to decide whether turnabout is fair play, or whether you want that different kind of leader Obama campaigned as. > > Make your choice, and the voters will have a chance to judge you a few years hence. It takes two to be bi-partisan. And furthermore both sides need to have good ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/22 "2009-02-10T16:43:25Z")
To sum up the lefties arguments, “The Democrats are 100% right in all things and the Republicans are 100% wrong.” The truth of the matter is there is no “right or wrong” in bipartisanship. It’s a perfectly acceptable approach to government to ignore the minority when it comes to decision making. _Majority rule_ is how our government works, the structure of our government however is designed around making sure that a dangerous “faction” can’t control all organs of government very easily and use that control to trample on the rights of the minority. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/23 "2009-02-10T16:46:00Z")
Obama talked to repubs. The repubs were so power crazy that they threatened to remove the filibuster rule because it slowed down their march to total control. They were allowing nobody to stand in the way of their crappy selfish policies. They got their way, how did it work out? They may have taken the world economy down. Time will tell. But they have lost their right to pretend they have America’s interest at heart. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/24 "2009-02-10T16:47:16Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > To sum up the lefties arguments, “The Democrats are 100% right in all things and the Republicans are 100% wrong.” The truth of the matter is there is no “right or wrong” in bipartisanship. It’s a perfectly acceptable approach to government to ignore the minority when it comes to decision making. > > _Majority rule_ is how our government works, the structure of our government however is designed around making sure that a dangerous “faction” can’t control all organs of government very easily and use that control to trample on the rights of the minority. The current situation, as Obama pointed out in his recent speech, demonstrates the bankruptcy of Republican ideas. When they are prepared to reconsider their ideas, prepared to admit they were wrong, get back to us. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/25 "2009-02-10T16:48:59Z")
> [@](#): > > The public overwhelmingly (81%) believes President Obama is generally > reaching out to Congressional Republicans – but just 41% think Republicans > are returning the favor. [PDF](http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_020509.pdf) The voters know what’s what. It is just the fringe 19% who still supported Bush at the end who are holdouts. The Congressional Dems have not been as bipartisan as Obama, but the least bipartisan among them have bulletproof seats. Of course, the fact that 81% of Americans agree on something doesn’t make it true. But the threat of voter backlash to Obama’s partisanship is not credible. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/26 "2009-02-10T16:49:49Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > Did Bush ever try to include Democrats to the extent that Obama has **when Republicans were the majority parties in Congress**? Well there is the story that [Pelosi signed off on the interrogation techniques](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/004862.php) in 2002 the Bush administration was considering to use. If that be the case, no wonder she refused to bring up impeachment since her head would also have been on the table. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/27 "2009-02-10T16:51:30Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > When they are prepared to reconsider their ideas, prepared to admit they were wrong, get back to us. So you advocated Republicans taking this approach in 2001-2006? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/28 "2009-02-10T16:52:53Z")
> [@shallora](#): > > To sum up: Congress (which has a dismal 20% approval rating) is so far controlling Obama (who has more than a 60% approval rating). What’s wrong with this picture? Ignoring the “They’re controlling Obama” angle, an immediate problem I see with the picture is lumping Congress into one heap. From [PollingReport.com](http://PollingReport.com)… **Democratic Congress Approval Ratings:** 60% per CNN on Feb 7-8 48% per Pew Research on Feb 4-8 48% per CBS on Feb 2-4 **Republican Congress Approval Ratings** 44% per CNN on Feb 7-8 34% per Pew Research on Feb 4-8 32% per CBS on Feb 2-4 People dislike “Congress” as a whole but like the Democrats in Congress an average of 15 points more than they like the Republicans. As I recall, Republicans made this same mistake before the last election when I heard several crowing about how low the Congressional approval ratings were so it was a sure thing that the GOP would regain control (yes, I realize this meant ignoring all the polling of specific election races that was going on). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/29 "2009-02-10T16:58:08Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The truth of the matter is there is no “right or wrong” in bipartisanship. There is, however, good faith and bad faith. Good faith means, among other things, basing your arguments on a genuinely thought out worldview, with the good of the country at heart. Do you see that in what the Republicans are doing? Or simply opposition for the sake of not letting the other guys look good? [Republicans who vote for the bill will be punished](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/10/gop-group-threatens-campaign-republican-stimulus-backers/), whatever the bill ultimately says - because it’s a Democratic bill. > [@](#): > > It’s a perfectly acceptable approach to government to ignore the minority when it comes to decision making. Only when the minority is refusing to act responsibly. But this is such an instance. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/30 "2009-02-10T17:01:24Z")
> [@furt](#): > > So you advocated Republicans taking this approach in 2001-2006? Remember the situation they were given - what did the Democrats have to apologize for? Remember what they turned the situation into. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/31 "2009-02-10T17:14:32Z")
Look - you do what you think is best, and so will we. And in the end the voters will decide. They won’t decide who is right and who is wrong - that isn’t what elections do. But they will decide who will get the job and be accountable for it. If your party thinks the way to go is to craft bills guaranteed to have no Republican support, be my guest. That might win you big support down the line. Or it might not. Your call to make, your consequences to take. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/32 "2009-02-10T17:20:57Z")
See post #25 **Moto**. Your threat of lost elections has no force because the vast majority of Americans think Obama is being bipartisan, and that the Dems in Congress are more bipartisan than the Republicans. And, as it happens, they have the more accurate view of reality. Your claims about bills designed to have no Republican support and **Sam** ’s claims of no consultation whatsoever are just not in accord with the facts. Obama did consult with Congressional Republicans. Changes to the bills were made. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/33 "2009-02-10T17:29:07Z")
The repubs weilded their power ruthlessly. They wrote and changed bills in private with no dem input. They allowed industries to write their own bills. The lobbyists had huge input . When dems wanted to have a committee investigation they were assigned rooms too small and then mics and electricity would not function. They wrote bills at night and dropped them onto the house with no chance to read them. They were arrogant pricks . What suddenly makes them reasonable now? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/34 "2009-02-10T17:37:14Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > But they will decide who will get the job and be accountable for it. That just happened a couple of months ago. You might have heard something about it. But the discredited and repudiated party, the one you support, doesn’t realize that. They still want the power, and are using whatever tools they have left to hold onto it, but they no longer have to be accountable to anyone, even themselves. [qutoe]If your party thinks the way to go is to craft bills guaranteed to have no Republican support, be my guest. [/quote] In all seriousness, do you really think there is any bill the Democrats can sponsor that the Republicans can support? Any at all? Or is this, as has already been suggested, simple obstructionism? Come on now.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/35 "2009-02-10T17:46:50Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Look - you do what you think is best, and so will we. And in the end the voters will decide. They won’t decide who is right and who is wrong - that isn’t what elections do. But they will decide who will get the job and be accountable for it. > > If your party thinks the way to go is to craft bills guaranteed to have no Republican support, be my guest. That might win you big support down the line. Or it might not. Your call to make, your consequences to take. In the Senate, the bill was modified by a bipartisan committee. In the House, please let us know any Republican proposals besides the tax cut. You think a similar bipartisan committee was impossible there? The same thing is happening in California, where the Republican members of the legislature would rather see the state go bankrupt than raise tax one - even though one of their own is governor. If they keep it up, they are going the way of the Whigs, so long as they don’t take the country with them. Given their unwillingness to compromise here, I don’t want to hear any complaints about them not being consulted in the future. It seems a waste. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/36 "2009-02-10T17:48:41Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Ignoring the “They’re controlling Obama” angle, an immediate problem I see with the picture is lumping Congress into one heap. From [PollingReport.com](http://PollingReport.com)… > > **Democratic Congress Approval Ratings:** > 60% per CNN on Feb 7-8 > 48% per Pew Research on Feb 4-8 > 48% per CBS on Feb 2-4 > > **Republican Congress Approval Ratings** > 44% per CNN on Feb 7-8 > 34% per Pew Research on Feb 4-8 > 32% per CBS on Feb 2-4 > > People dislike “Congress” as a whole but like the Democrats in Congress an average of 15 points more than they like the Republicans. As I recall, Republicans made this same mistake before the last election when I heard several crowing about how low the Congressional approval ratings were so it was a sure thing that the GOP would regain control (yes, I realize this meant ignoring all the polling of specific election races that was going on). There were similar poll numbers before the election also. Are the Republicans surprised that people strengthened the Democratic majority in the unpopular congress? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/37 "2009-02-10T17:49:44Z")
> [@furt](#): > > So you advocated Republicans taking this approach in 2001-2006? The difference, of course, is that, regardless of election results, the Pub approach to the economy has been demonstrably **wrong.** ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/38 "2009-02-10T18:03:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The difference, of course, is that, regardless of election results, the Pub approach to the economy has been demonstrably **wrong.** Yes, that’s it. It’s an empirical fact. All economists agree. Except for the hundreds that don’t, but we can ignore them. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/39 "2009-02-10T18:10:12Z")
What part of “recession” do you not understand?:dubious: What part of “598,000 jobs lost in January alone”? Or “deficit” or “national debt”? You’re \*serious \*about thinking the Bush/GOP economic policies have been successful? Aw, fergit it, the remaining Pub diehards are in a fantasy world. Don’t try to reason with 'em, can’t be done. Pat the little darlings on the head and go around 'em, Mr. President, it’s the only way to deal with reality. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209/40 "2009-02-10T18:17:14Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Yes, that’s it. It’s an empirical fact. All economists agree. Except for the hundreds that don’t, but we can ignore them. :rolleyes: “Hundreds”? Cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-ever-try-to-include-democrats-to-the-extent-that-obama-has/485209.md?page=3)