# Did Bush fake a Katrina photo op? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006 "2005-09-04T04:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/81 "2005-09-04T19:36:29Z")
I’m reminded of something that _does_ hold water: A douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/82 "2005-09-04T19:56:47Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Huh? The polls “reflect public opinion?” Then why did you say this in the above post? \* I’m just saying their response on polls doesn’t mean anything.\* > > Which is it? Are the polls meaningless? Or do they reflect public opinion? Look, this is simple. Opinion polls gauge public opinion. With me so far? Hence you say, “this poll says the public thinks this,” and I say, “OK, that means the public thinks that.” What it does NOT mean is that the public is right. “The president is doing a shitty job” is a subjective statement. It has no objective reality – it’s an evaluation of his performance. So if a poll suggests the public disapproves of the president’s performance, the public really does disapprove of the president’s performance and there’s now way that the public can be wrong about what the public thinks. “The president is 8 feet tall” is a statement about the facts. Either he is, or he isn’t. A public opinion poll that reveals a lot of people think he is does not make him 8-feet tall. It just shows that the public is dumb. So when the public does not “blame” the president for the shit in New Orleans (which is a weird way to phrase the question), it merely shows the public is naive about how the president plundered funds to rebuild the levees to fund his goddamned war. It’s just like how many people think there’s a connection between Iraq and 9/11. The opinion poll doesn’t create the facts, it just shows how ignorant people are of the facts, and how effective the political machinery of the GOP and the right-wing media are at confusing and misinforming them. Get it now? Public opinion polls are valid for showing what the public thinks, but it is inaccurate to suppose that because the public thinks something is so it must be so. Majority does not “rule” with objective reality. Either people know shit or they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/83 "2005-09-04T20:04:16Z")
> [@markdiscordia](#): > > Look, it’s very clear. When 51% of the country supports Bush, it means that glorious democracy has spoken and any opposition, dissent, or Constitution that disagrees with the agenda needs to get out of the way of the Will Of The People. > > When 51% of the country opposes Bush, it means that polls of the uninformed rabble are unreliable and should be ignored. > > Simple, really. Suppose I’m a teacher grading a test with an assistant. “What did most of them say was the capital of Minnesota?” I ask. “Minneapolis,” she says. What that means is that most of the kids think Minneapolis is the capital of Minnesota. It does not mean Minneapolis IS, in fact the capital of Minnesota. Suppose later there’s an evaluation question “Do you like the teacher?” “Do they like me?” I ask. “Nope,” she says. “They fucking hate you.” Her first statement reflects that the class hates me. They aren’t “wrong.” They accurately stated their opinion of me. The first item indicates not that the capital of Minnesota is Minneapolis, but that my class is ignorant. The second is a valid report of their opinion of me. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/84 "2005-09-04T20:05:57Z")
[http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ar...5\_09/007042.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ar...5_09/007042.php) I thought that was the way it’s always done. No, seriously. Certainly you don’t think the apparent gestures of spontaneity by celebs are really spontaneous? Ever see _Wag The Dog_? I’ve seen enough staged events for minor celebs to recognize the procedure. Hollywood drives the media nowadays. Example from my personal files: Did John Leguizamo really travel for miles on a snowmobile to get to the _Ice Age_ [movie premier in Minnesota](http://doorbell.net/pbc/iceage.htm)? Did he stay to watch the whole movie with the Polar Bears? Of course not! They had a 75-ft strip of snow prepared for him, a snowmobile warmed up and running. He got off the plane, was limoed to the site, got on the snowmobile, someone showed him how to work it, he reved it up, the cameras rolled, and he jerked to a stop 20 feet later. He watched 5 minutes of the movie for picture purposes, the cameras turned off, the media left, and JL hotfootted it outa there. All over in 10 minutes, tops. Bush is no different. He just has a bigger budget. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/85 "2005-09-04T20:26:52Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Look, this is simple. > > Opinion polls gauge public opinion. With me so far? > > Hence you say, “this poll says the public thinks this,” and I say, “OK, that means the public thinks that.” What it does NOT mean is that the public is right. > > “The president is doing a shitty job” is a subjective statement. It has no objective reality – it’s an evaluation of his performance. So if a poll suggests the public disapproves of the president’s performance, the public really does disapprove of the president’s performance and there’s now way that the public can be wrong about what the public thinks. > > “The president is 8 feet tall” is a statement about the facts. Either he is, or he isn’t. A public opinion poll that reveals a lot of people think he is does not make him 8-feet tall. It just shows that the public is dumb. > > So when the public does not “blame” the president for the shit in New Orleans (which is a weird way to phrase the question), it merely shows the public is naive about how the president plundered funds to rebuild the levees to fund his goddamned war. It’s just like how many people think there’s a connection between Iraq and 9/11. The opinion poll doesn’t create the facts, it just shows how ignorant people are of the facts, and how effective the political machinery of the GOP and the right-wing media are at confusing and misinforming them. > > Get it now? Public opinion polls are valid for showing what the public thinks, but it is inaccurate to suppose that because the public thinks something is so it must be so. Majority does not “rule” with objective reality. Either people know shit or they don’t. Excuse me, but where have I ever said that polls are “right” or “wrong” about anything? You are amusing, though. If public opinion indicates that Americans do not blame Bush for Katrina, then they must be, using your word, “naive.” Does that mean the public could also be “naive” about Bush’s job performance? Maybe he’s doing a superb job but the people being polled are just too “naive” to see it? ---
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/86 "2005-09-04T20:28:18Z")
What exactly do you believe in then, **Stephe96**? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/87 "2005-09-04T20:35:45Z")
> [@Exploding Kitchen](#): > > What exactly do you believe in then, **Stephe96**? Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman’s back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/88 "2005-09-04T20:38:43Z")
There you have it: **Stephe96** is a die-hard, true faith believer in non sequiturs. It’s all starting to make sense! ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/89 "2005-09-04T20:39:50Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Excuse me, but where have I ever said that polls are “right” or “wrong” about anything? > > You are amusing, though. If public opinion indicates that Americans do not blame Bush for Katrina, then they must be, using your word, “naive.” > > Does that mean the public could also be “naive” about Bush’s job performance? Maybe he’s doing a superb job but the people being polled are just too “naive” to see it? Yes, the public is naive about a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/90 "2005-09-04T20:40:13Z")
In case nobody understands my previous post, it’s Kevin Costner’s speech from _ **Bull Durham**._ I’m not trying to take credit for writing it! ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/91 "2005-09-04T20:40:56Z")
I think that the movies of Kevin Costner are self-indulgent, over-rated crap. Except for Bull Durham, of course, and Field of Dreams. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/92 "2005-09-04T20:41:24Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Yes, the public is naive about a lot of things. Do admit that, despite public polls indicating otherwise, Bush could actually be doing a great job running the country? ---
**Author:** ![Exploding\_Kitchen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Exploding\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exploding_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/93 "2005-09-04T20:42:05Z")
No, really. What do you believe in? After all, you’re the one getting your undies in a wad over being pegged for things you supposedly don’t believe in. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/94 "2005-09-04T20:51:28Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Excuse me, but where have I ever said that polls are “right” or “wrong” about anything? > > You are amusing, though. If public opinion indicates that Americans do not blame Bush for Katrina, then they must be, using your word, “naive.” > > Does that mean the public could also be “naive” about Bush’s job performance? Maybe he’s doing a superb job but the people being polled are just too “naive” to see it? Hey, stupid fuck, I’ll write this in Retard so you can understand it. Just because the public believes something doesn’t make it true. Public opinion polls are accurate reflections of public opinion. that doesn’t mean that public opinion can’t be factually wrong or uninformed and it frequently is. The question of whether Bush bears responisbility for the levee failures in New Orleans cannot be resolved by a public opinion poll. He either does or he doesn’t The facts are not affected or decided by public opinion. Bush diverted funds from levee defenses in new Orleans to fund his war in Iraq. The hurricane isn’t what devestated NO, it was the failure of the levees. Those are facts. If the public is unaware of those facts, that doesn’t make them go away. Do you have a response or a defense for the FACT that Bush syphoned funds from the levees to pay for the war? Citing an opinion poll is not a response. One more question- i’m curious- how do you manage to breathe with Bush’s cock jammed down your throat all the time? ---
**Author:** ![markdiscordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@markdiscordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdiscordia)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/95 "2005-09-04T20:55:05Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Suppose I’m a teacher grading a test with an assistant. > > “What did most of them say was the capital of Minnesota?” I ask. > > “Minneapolis,” she says. > > What that means is that most of the kids think Minneapolis is the capital of Minnesota. It does not mean Minneapolis IS, in fact the capital of Minnesota. > > Suppose later there’s an evaluation question “Do you like the teacher?” > > “Do they like me?” I ask. > > “Nope,” she says. “They fucking hate you.” > > Her first statement reflects that the class hates me. They aren’t “wrong.” They accurately stated their opinion of me. > > The first item indicates not that the capital of Minnesota is Minneapolis, but that my class is ignorant. The second is a valid report of their opinion of me. Yes, I know that polls do not determine fact or morality. I’m angry at Republicans for only remembering that fact when the polls are against them. When the polls are in favor of Bush, Republicans think we can change what 2 + 2 is by voting on it. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/96 "2005-09-04T20:55:50Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Do admit that, despite public polls indicating otherwise, Bush could actually be doing a great job running the country? If all I knew about him was the results of an opinion poll, I’d say “yes.” If all I know about a president is that he’s lost favor with the public, I’d hold forth – as a possibility, mind you – that he or she had made tough decisions against the will of the masses but which were good long-term. But I’d also understand that many other things could be responsible for his unpopularity. Hence the relative uselessness of polls to anyone except political strategists. If you’re asking if the public could be wrong and that he’s doing a great job despite the war and the debt and the gutted FEMA and the right-wing religious agenda, and the frat boy jokes at disaster sites, I’d say, no. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/97 "2005-09-04T20:56:44Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Do admit that, despite public polls indicating otherwise, Bush could actually be doing a great job running the country? Theoretically, a Prez could have a low approval rating but actually be doing a good job, yes. That’s not the case with the current President but it is theoretically possible. My personal evaluation of Bush has nothing to do with his approval ratings. I think he’s shit whether his numbers are good or bad. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/98 "2005-09-04T20:57:10Z")
> [@markdiscordia](#): > > Yes, I know that polls do not determine fact or morality. I’m angry at Republicans for only remembering that fact when the polls are against them. When the polls are in favor of Bush, Republicans think we can change what 2 + 2 is by voting on it. Or, to use a less fantastic analogy, use opinion polls to turn religious mythology into legitimate science. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/99 "2005-09-04T21:05:29Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Show me a post where I’ve said I “support” Bush on anything. Do you support Bush on anything? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006/100 "2005-09-04T21:07:51Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > What the fuck is wrong with you? People are _dying_ and you’re trying to defend the man who’s harming them? **Stephe96** drinks _very_ deeply from the fountain of Bush apologist Kool-Aid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-fake-a-katrina-photo-op/320006.md?page=6)