# Did Bush steal the 2000 election and allow 9/11 to happen **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2006, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470 "2006-01-11T11:07:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/21 "2006-01-11T16:24:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What laws of nature had to be stretched for the official explanation to work? Might be crossing nature and physics again… basically, steel melting at 250 C, skyscrapers imploding after less than an hour’s kerosene fire, Mr. Silverstein admitting that WT7 was pulled… I could go on but I’m not here to hijack this thread or even to start a debate about these three buildings; the strawman was entirely accidental. I don’t start or participate in arguments with Americans about 9/11. You people have an odd habit of discrediting sources instead of trying to debunk what they’re saying and I’ve grown weary of people calling these statements and my humble self looney without even thinking about the statements being made. It’s your country, your lives and your minds; do what you want with them. I have no illusions about GWB “masterminding” the attack, the planes being remote controlled or any of that jazz but there are obvious …errors in the official explanation for the implosions. The information I’ve seen is easily accessible–if you want to see, start with Kevin Ryan (Underwriters Laboratory) and work your way from there. Alex Jones has also made a decent analysis of the WT7 implosion. But, then again, let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories. Someone already linked to Snopes so it’s due time to shut up. ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/22 "2006-01-11T16:29:34Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Well gee. Isn’t it obvious?! It’s all part of the giant Icelandic conspiracy masterminded by Osama bin Jóhannsson. The towers were targeted in an attempt by the Icelandic fishing/industrial complex to impose their version of the Icelandic caliphate on the world. Haven’t you noticed how they’ve been buying up companies left and right since 9/11?! Surely there’s a connection. They already own the largest shopping centre in Copenhagen. Well I for one welcome my new overlord UselessGit. Ssshhh… they are not yet ready for the truth. But they will be. Oh, yes… they will be. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/23 "2006-01-11T16:32:55Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Actually there’s no factual evidence suggesting that those 8,000 people would have voted, no factual evidence suggesting for whom they would have voted. > > There’s a lot of incompetence involved with the State of Florida’s vote-counting process and their voter registration, but I’ve yet to see any facts that there is any connection to George Bush; or that there is any evidence of a deliberate effort to swing things his way. Yaaaaawn. Heard the Apologistas say all this before. All the stuff that happened in Florida happened by coincidence and for no particular reason and anyway things would have turned out the same. You keep believing that if you want to. Yah, Katherine Harris is fucking incompetent at registerng and counting Dem votes, but she perks right up where Repubican votes are concerned … Please, this is just sad. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/24 "2006-01-11T16:41:29Z")
Some people think that “Occam’s Razor” is the brand name of the box cutters wielded by the 9-11 hijackers. ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/25 "2006-01-11T16:50:46Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Some people think that “Occam’s Razor” is the brand name of the box cutters wielded by the 9-11 hijackers. The validity of which just about outweighs its helpfulness. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/26 "2006-01-11T16:54:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What laws of nature had to be stretched for the official explanation to work? Well, heck, we all know that George W. Bush and the Republican adminstration are all habitual lawbreakers anyway, right? So, what’s a few laws of nature? 😃 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/27 "2006-01-11T17:02:37Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Well, heck, we all know that George W. Bush and the Republican adminstration are all habitual lawbreakers anyway, right? So, what’s a few laws of nature? Grudging laughs from a foaming left-wing lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/28 "2006-01-11T17:25:16Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Yaaaaawn. Heard the Apologistas say all this before. All the stuff that happened in Florida happened by coincidence and for no particular reason and anyway things would have turned out the same. You keep believing that if you want to. Yah, Katherine Harris is fucking incompetent at registerng and counting Dem votes, but she perks right up where Repubican votes are concerned … > > Please, this is just sad. Indeed it is sad. The problem with all of that, is that the Bush Machine, in addition to all the supposed vote-rigging they did in Florida, is have known well in advance of the election, that Florida would be the keystone to the entire election. _That_, is simply preposterous. Not to mention, Harris’s whimsical competence which you so derisively deride, is _exactly_ the thing that Dubya himself must have in spades if everything you believe of him is indeed true. He’s a most incompetent bungler to be the figurehead of such a massive conspiracy, no? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/29 "2006-01-11T17:28:31Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Yaaaaawn. Heard the Apologistas say all this before. All the stuff that happened in Florida happened by coincidence and for no particular reason and anyway things would have turned out the same. You keep believing that if you want to. Yah, Katherine Harris is fucking incompetent at registerng and counting Dem votes, but she perks right up where Repubican votes are concerned … > > Please, this is just sad. I don’t discount the possibility something dirty happened, but all I’ve seen evidence of is incompetence. According to most recounts the only way that Gore could have won in Florida is by counting “over votes” votes for gore on ballots that also included votes for President Bush. As it is, there is little evidence that there was any concerted effort to disenfranchise anyone. Some mistakes were made. If you have evidence that clearly points to a conspiracy, please share it. I would hate to think that someone would withhold evidence that could prove a politician stole an election. Personally I’ve always been of the opinion there should have been a runoff election in Florida in 2000, simply because when an election is that close there’s just no way to ever tell what really happened. How much petty corruption or incompetence played a hand, how many “dirty tricks” were employed. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/30 "2006-01-11T19:08:15Z")
It’s like this. Remember all those elderly Jews in Palm Beach voting for Buchanan, thus giving election 2000 to Bush? Remember most of those Jews came from New York? See the pattern now? Jews—\>New York—\>Twin Towers—\>9/11—\>Iraq—\>Iran—\>Timbuktu—\>Iceland! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/31 "2006-01-11T20:13:12Z")
Let’s get this thing clear – George W. Bush did not steal the 2000 presidential election. He was just receiving stolen goods from Scalia, Rehnquist, Thomas, O’Connor, and Kennedy. (Any ruling that says “Our decision is so lame-ass it should not be used as precedent in future cases” seems _verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry_ shady to me…) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/32 "2006-01-11T20:16:45Z")
> [@UselessGit](#): > > Might be crossing nature and physics again… basically, steel melting at 250 C, skyscrapers imploding after less than an hour’s kerosene fire, Mr. Silverstein admitting that WT7 was pulled… > > I could go on but I’m not here to hijack this thread or even to start a debate about these three buildings; the strawman was entirely accidental. I don’t start or participate in arguments with Americans about 9/11. You people have an odd habit of discrediting sources instead of trying to debunk what they’re saying and I’ve grown weary of people calling these statements and my humble self looney without even thinking about the statements being made. It’s your country, your lives and your minds; do what you want with them. > > I have no illusions about GWB “masterminding” the attack, the planes being remote controlled or any of that jazz but there are obvious …errors in the official explanation for the implosions. The information I’ve seen is easily accessible–if you want to see, start with Kevin Ryan (Underwriters Laboratory) and work your way from there. Alex Jones has also made a decent analysis of the WT7 implosion. > > But, then again, let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories. Someone already linked to Snopes so it’s due time to shut up. You know what’s even more wearying is watching thousands of your countrymen get murdered on live TV and then listening to an endless parade of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories all having the common theme that Americans (and often Jews) are really evil and this whole thing was our own doing. The Pentagon was hit by a missile. The CIA controlled the airplanes. Jews were warned not to go to work that day. So on and so forth. It is not the responsibility of Americans to debunk every whacky assertion that comes down the pike, but rather the proponents of these ideas to prove them. I don’t even get the whole conspiracy here. The buildings were rigged with explosives? We rigged them up to knock them down because why? They could not have collapsed on their own? I’ve seen pretty thorough explanations of how the WTC collapsed and none of it seemed odd to me. The idea of demolitions experts knocking the buildings down before even the firefighters and cops could get out seems very, very odd, however. And to what end? The attacks by themselves weren’t bad enough? And what about the other buildings destroyed on that day? There were at least five more including a Greek Orthodox church. How do they figure into this devilish plot? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/33 "2006-01-11T20:23:01Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > the Bush Machine, in addition to all the supposed vote-rigging they did in Florida, is have known well in advance of the election, that Florida would be the keystone to the entire election. _That_, is simply preposterous. What, you never heard or read a single pundit say that the election would be decided by Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida? None? Not even in 2004? \*That \* claim is what’s preposterous. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/34 "2006-01-11T20:29:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t even get the whole conspiracy here. The buildings were rigged with explosives? We rigged them up to knock them down because why? Isn’t it obvious? The Mutha’ of all insurance scams. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/35 "2006-01-11T21:26:50Z")
> [@UselessGit](#): > > Indeed. I assume Snopes, the definite article on any debate, has already “shot this down”. Snopes has a whole “Rumors of War” section on 9-11-related ULs. [http://www.snopes.com/rumors/rumors.asp](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/rumors.asp) I can’t find anything on a rumor about “controlled demolition” of the WTC, but there is a page on the Pentagon: [http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm) (Snopes classifies the story, originally promulgated by French author Thierry Meyssan, as “False.”) ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/36 "2006-01-11T22:10:30Z")
> [@BrianJ4](#): > > 1. People (specifically 4000 of a certain religion who apparently are all Bush supporters) were warned not to go to the WTC on 9/11. (I’ve heard this before, I’m sure she isnt an anti-semite, just clueless and believes anything peple tell her) I’ll say. I don’t know very many Jews who are Bush supporters. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/37 "2006-01-12T03:27:40Z")
> [@BrianJ4](#): > > 1. People (specifically 4000 of a certain religion who apparently are all Bush supporters) were warned not to go to the WTC on 9/11. (I’ve heard this before, I’m sure she isnt an anti-semite, just clueless and believes anything peple tell her) By the way, most Jews voted for Gore. I think a majority of Catholics did too. And, of course, the Blacks overwhelmingly did. It is the damn WASPs who voted him in 😉 so if you want to start a conspiracy, you might as well use them. > [@Uncle Beer](#): > > Indeed it is sad. The problem with all of that, is that the Bush Machine, in addition to all the supposed vote-rigging they did in Florida, is have known well in advance of the election, that Florida would be the keystone to the entire election. That, is simply preposterous. As **ElvisL1ves** noted, it doesn’t take a genius to know which states are going to matter. That is why I chose to spend time calling specifically voters in Ohio and then going down to Cleveland for the last few days before the election in 2004. And, I think the slogan, “Thank globally, act locally!” applies here…I.e., those in the battleground states were especially attuned to do everything that they could…and Katherine Harris seems to have been well-rewarded for doing so. That felon list was beyond simply incompetent…It really looked like willful incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/38 "2006-01-12T03:58:33Z")
As far as Bush and the 2000 election, I think it goes back to playground baseball, “Tie goes to the runner.” Bush’s brother was governor of Florida. The best Gore could have hoped for was to get the election into the House of Representatives and he would have lost there. Now, who would have been VP might be more interesting as Lieberman could have perhaps won in the Senate. I’ll put the Bush allowed 9/11 rumors in with the FDR knew about Pearl Harbor rumors. An American defeat of the hijackers or the Japanese would have been FAR better for Bush/FDR than the destruction that happened. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/39 "2006-01-12T04:00:12Z")
From _Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right,_ by Al Franken (Dutton, 2003), p. 104: > [@](#): > > Six months after 9/11, the Gallup Poll of Islamic Countries found that an overwhelming majority of those surveyed believed the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon had not been the work of Arabs. Well-educated Egyptians and Saudis believed that the Israelis were behind the murder of three thousand innocents on 9/11, in large part because of articles in their countries’ official state newspapers. One of the widely disseminated stories was that no Jews died in the collapse of the Trade Towers because they had received calls telling them not to go to work that day. > > To tell you the truth, I got the Jew call. I had an office in the Trade Center where I used to do most of my writing. The call came from former New York mayor Ed Koch. “Al,” he told me, “don’t go to work on the twenty-third day of Elul.” ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470/40 "2006-01-12T15:09:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Snopes has a whole “Rumors of War” section on 9-11-related ULs. [http://www.snopes.com/rumors/rumors.asp](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/rumors.asp) I can’t find anything on a rumor about “controlled demolition” of the WTC, but there is a page on the Pentagon: [http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm) (Snopes classifies the story, originally promulgated by French author Thierry Meyssan, as “False.”) I’m not all that inerested in the Pentagon theory, to be honest, since it doesn’t reek as pungently as the implosions. The government could shut up a LOT of conspiracy theorists simply by showing one of the number of pictures they must have of an airplane approaching the Pentagon, though. Which it won’t. > [@New Iskander](#): > > It’s like this. > > Remember all those elderly Jews in Palm Beach voting for Buchanan, thus giving election 2000 to Bush? > > Remember most of those Jews came from New York? > > See the pattern now? > > Jews—\>New York—\>Twin Towers—\>9/11—\>Iraq—\>Iran—\>Timbuktu—\>Iceland! Hey, don’t drag us into this again; we’ve long since apologized for believing the Bush Administration’s buildup to Iraq and supporting the invasion. We’re all for the build-up, though; two wrongs do not a right make. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-bush-steal-the-2000-election-and-allow-9-11-to-happen/339470.md?page=3)