# Did Castro Have JFK Killed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2018, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391 "2018-02-23T04:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/141 "2018-03-01T19:45:23Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > If this discussion is too detailed I suggest people stop asking for citations. Right out of the playbook. BORING. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/142 "2018-03-01T19:46:07Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > It is a discussion about Dale Myers and his methods. > > In it we are shown how Myers moves wounds around on Kennedy’s body to try and make his theory work. Apparently, such chicanery is convincing to some people. > > If this discussion is too detailed I suggest people stop asking for citations. I could tell that at a glance; I was asking if there was say, a particular paragraph or something you wanted us to look at. Instead, you want us to go through the entire article (which I may or may not do at my leisure and/or discretion), but just laying a blanket article on us and saying “Look! Here’s proof!” isn’t very convincing. I see by your join date you haven’t been here long. Perhaps you were a lurker previously, perhaps not. If not, and you don’t know that much about this board, I’d say you’re in for a treat–you’ve already had a taste of it, but stick around. There’s more fun to be had. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/143 "2018-03-01T19:46:14Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > It is a discussion about Dale Myers and his methods. > > In it we are shown how Myers moves wounds around on Kennedy’s body to try and make his theory work. Apparently, such chicanery is convincing to some people. > > If this discussion is too detailed I suggest people stop asking for citations. Other than the fact that he is widely known for(and makes a living from promoting) supporting conspiracy theories like yours, what makes Pat Speer an expert in your eyes? Why should we listen to his opinion? ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/144 "2018-03-01T19:46:18Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > There seem to be differing attitudes toward the HSCA. Yes, all very interesting theories, but none of which can realistically account for the findings of world class acoustics experts which show the correlation between the dictabelt recording and the specific location of Dealey Plaza and the specific sequence of shots during the assassination. [http://jfklancer.com/pdf/Thomas.pdf](http://jfklancer.com/pdf/Thomas.pdf) It would be, in my opinion, too much a ‘coincidence’ to have a recording of supposed ‘random noises’ which correlate exactly to a specific crime at a specific place. But some folks apparently can’t bring themselves to accept that an assassination can happen to advance a political agenda, so they go with ‘coincidence theory’. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/145 "2018-03-01T19:47:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Who paid you to say that? > > Regards, > Shodan You’re not cutting in _my_ action-nice try. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/146 "2018-03-01T19:52:40Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > I could tell that at a glance; I was asking if there was say, a particular paragraph or something you wanted us to look at. Instead, you want us to go through the entire article (which I may or may not do at my leisure and/or discretion), but just laying a blanket article on us and saying “Look! Here’s proof!” isn’t very convincing. No, someone saying ‘Dale Myers is great!’ or ‘John McAdams is wonderful!’ isn’t very convincing either, yet people here seem to think that is sufficient. > [@](#): > > I see by your join date you haven’t been here long. Perhaps you were a lurker previously, perhaps not. If not, and you don’t know that much about this board, I’d say you’re in for a treat–you’ve already had a taste of it, but stick around. There’s more fun to be had. 🆒 Oh, I’m having a great time playing whack-a-mole with Lone Nutter Theorists. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/147 "2018-03-01T19:53:16Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > Yes, all very interesting theories, but none of which can realistically account for the findings of world class acoustics experts which show the correlation between the dictabelt recording and the specific location of Dealey Plaza and the specific sequence of shots during the assassination. > > [http://jfklancer.com/pdf/Thomas.pdf](http://jfklancer.com/pdf/Thomas.pdf) > > It would be, in my opinion, too much a ‘coincidence’ to have a recording of supposed ‘random noises’ which correlate exactly to a specific crime at a specific place. > > But some folks apparently can’t bring themselves to accept that an assassination can happen to advance a political agenda, so they go with ‘coincidence theory’. Ahhh, handwaving at its finest. The “gunshot” recording was noted a minute after the assassination took place. Look, I’ve debated pro-conspiracy before on other boards, and frankly, I agree with **Czarcasm** : it is boring, and it gets old very quickly, because it amounts to “Here’s evidence.” “No, it’s not! It’s fake! There was a conspiracy, and I know it!” So no one ever convinces anyone. It’s the same with UFOs and Bigfoot. It just goes over the same ground again and again. So why did I even post in this thread, if that’s my attitude? Because I can, that’ why. I’ll now leave it to others who have more patience than I, unless I feel I have something to offer. Good day Sir! I said Good Day! Edit: > [@](#): > > No, someone saying ‘Dale Myers is great!’ or ‘John McAdams is wonderful!’ isn’t very convincing either, See what I mean? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/148 "2018-03-01T19:59:50Z")
[Link.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=773050&highlight=Kennedy) Let me know if you have anything new to offer. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/149 "2018-03-01T20:00:00Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Ahhh, handwaving at its finest. Actually, it’s reasoned argument. Why am I not surprised some folks here don’t recognize it when they see it? > [@](#): > > The “gunshot” recording was noted a minute after the assassination took place. Not likely, given how the information on the tape conforms to Dealey Plaza to the exclusion of any other place in Dallas. > [@](#): > > Look, I’ve debated pro-conspiracy before on other boards, and frankly, I agree with **Czarcasm** : it is boring, and it gets old very quickly, because it amounts to “Here’s evidence.” “No, it’s not! It’s fake! There was a conspiracy, and I know it!” Yes, as I have presented evidence and this is the boring response I’m getting from Lone Nut Theorists perhaps those who are presenting these boring reactions should go elsewhere to practice their craft. > [@](#): > > So no one ever convinces anyone. It’s the same with UFOs and Bigfoot. It just goes over the same ground again and again. So why did I even post in this thread, if that’s my attitude? Because I can, that’ why. I’ll now leave it to others who have more patience than I, unless I feel I have something to offer. > > Good day Sir! I said Good Day! I agree I am unlikely to convince people who don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/150 "2018-03-01T20:00:41Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > Yes, all very interesting theories, but none of which can realistically account for the findings of world class acoustics experts which show the correlation between the dictabelt recording and the specific location of Dealey Plaza and the specific sequence of shots during the assassination. > > [http://jfklancer.com/pdf/Thomas.pdf](http://jfklancer.com/pdf/Thomas.pdf) > > It would be, in my opinion, too much a ‘coincidence’ to have a recording of supposed ‘random noises’ which correlate exactly to a specific crime at a specific place. That doesn’t make any sense. The recording only correlates exactly to the crime \*if you’re using the recording as an accurate account of the crime \*(five shots fired from different places, etc), and thus using circular logic. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/151 "2018-03-01T20:02:02Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > No, someone saying ‘Dale Myers is great!’ or ‘John McAdams is wonderful!’ isn’t very convincing either, yet people here seem to think that is sufficient. Are you somehow receiving responses from another universe that we aren’t getting? Maybe you are posting in two different threads at the same time and are just confused as to what is being said in which thread? ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/152 "2018-03-01T20:02:03Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > See what I mean? Yes, posters here seem to operate on a double standard - I should believe Stephen King or Dale Myers on their say-so while setting much higher standards for skeptics. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/153 "2018-03-01T20:03:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you somehow receiving responses from another universe that we aren’t getting? Maybe you are posting in two different threads at the same time and are just confused as to what is being said in which thread? I didn’t link to Myers or McAdams. Maybe you missed those posts in your haste to try and say something ‘clever’. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/154 "2018-03-01T20:08:00Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > I didn’t link to Myers or McAdams. > > Maybe you missed those posts in your haste to try and say something ‘clever’. So show me where someone said “Dale Myers is great!” or “John McAdams is wonderful!”. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/155 "2018-03-01T20:15:13Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > That doesn’t make any sense. The recording only correlates exactly to the crime \*if you’re using the recording as an accurate account of the crime \*(five shots fired from different places, etc), and thus using circular logic. The recording was compared to a film of the crime and the acoustics of the place where the crime occurred. It could have correlated, or it might not have. Nobody knew beforehand. Then the acoustics specialists in two independent studies gave their expert opinion that there was a match. There’s no circularity in that. Nice try! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/156 "2018-03-01T20:18:32Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > Yes, all very interesting theories, but none of which can realistically account for the findings of world class acoustics experts which show the correlation between the dictabelt recording and the specific location of Dealey Plaza and the specific sequence of shots during the assassination. Did you happen to read post #123? Do you believe that the NAS is not world class, or do you think that the fact that the noises happened about a minute after the shooting does not realistically account for the Dictabelt? Thanks for the YouTube vid. Which of the people on it testified that they were running towards a shooter? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/157 "2018-03-01T20:25:31Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > The recording was compared to a film of the crime and the acoustics of the place where the crime occurred. It could have correlated, or it might not have. Nobody knew beforehand. > > Then the acoustics specialists in two independent studies gave their expert opinion that there was a match. > > There’s no circularity in that. > > Nice try! The film doesn’t have five shots to compare against, and the acoustics are going to vary based on where the motorcycle was (which is disputed; for instance, there’s no motorcycle on the film in the location the HSCA investigation concluded that it was) and where the alleged shots came from (which is disputed). More to the point, I’m not an acoustics expert, and I bet you aren’t either. I can [read peer-reviewed studies](http://jfk-records.com/ScienceAndJustice_45%284%29_207-226%282005%29.pdf) that say the alleged shots on the Dictabelt were recorded a minute after the assassination, but I can’t grasp the math or the technical details involved. All I can say on the matter with confidence is that the Dictabelt evidence seems to be inconclusive, given the varying opinions of credible experts over the years. If the Dictabelt is the meat of your argument, where does that leave you? ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/158 "2018-03-01T20:32:46Z")
> [@proudfootz](#): > > . . .Then the acoustics specialists in two independent studies gave their expert opinion that there was a match. . . But you’re aware that more experts and studies state that the dictabelt recordings were made after the assassination and not in Dealey Plaza, than ones that agree with you. Will you agree with that correct? That’s not up for dispute. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/159 "2018-03-01T20:36:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Did you happen to read post #123? Do you believe that the NAS is not world class, or do you think that the fact that the noises happened about a minute after the shooting does not realistically account for the Dictabelt? The NAS are fine. But they don’t take anything away from the forensic analytical skills of the original investigators. You might believe the impulses were recorded at another time and another place. There is nothing in that assertion which obliges me to share that belief. The theory that somehow _another_ event at _another_ location in Dallas somehow reproduced the acoustical footprint of Dealey Plaza as defined by forensic acoustic analysts is stretching things way too far out of proportion compared to the more mundane explanation that the tape is simply what it appears to be - a recording of the murder. Or, even more far-fetched, the impulses are random noises that somehow reproduce the acoustics of Dealey Plaza in an exact sequence that coincidentally matches the murder. I think the original findings of BBN and confirmation by Weiss & Aschkenasy require much less suspension of disbelief. ---
**Author:** ![proudfootz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9e5f3/32.png) [@proudfootz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/proudfootz)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391/160 "2018-03-01T20:43:52Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The film doesn’t have five shots to compare against, and the acoustics are going to vary based on where the motorcycle was (which is disputed; for instance, there’s no motorcycle on the film in the location the HSCA investigation concluded that it was) and where the alleged shots came from (which is disputed). > > More to the point, I’m not an acoustics expert, and I bet you aren’t either. I can [read peer-reviewed studies](http://jfk-records.com/ScienceAndJustice_45%284%29_207-226%282005%29.pdf) that say the alleged shots on the Dictabelt were recorded a minute after the assassination, but I can’t grasp the math or the technical details involved. All I can say on the matter with confidence is that the Dictabelt evidence seems to be inconclusive, given the varying opinions of credible experts over the years. > > If the Dictabelt is the meat of your argument, where does that leave you? Now it might be that given we have some experts on either side of the debate, that the evidence is inconclusive. The dictabelt is merely one strand, which confirms what witnesses reported (as I have already stated) and likewise is in harmony with the photographic evidence. But this is as good a place to start as any. I expect that some posters will push against anything that is stated which comes into conflict with their beliefs about this event. As can be seen, with experts divided even on this one point, we are a long way from claims that ‘all the evidence’ points one way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-castro-have-jfk-killed/809391.md?page=9)