# Did Christianity Absorb any Ideas from the Ancient Egyptian Mythology? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 16, 2008, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183 "2008-10-16T12:41:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/eada6e/32.png) [@\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Undecided_Adrian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/21 "2008-10-16T23:27:02Z")
Well, the Egyptians were the first to practice [Monotheism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenism). There seem to be no further detailed links, however. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/22 "2008-10-16T23:36:21Z")
And of course there is the Egyptian God Amen [Amen and Amen-Ra, Egyptian Gods](http://www.touregypt.net/amen.htm) And Christians sign off on prayers with “Amen”. Do Jews sign off that way, I don’t remember, but seem to recall they do? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/23 "2008-10-16T23:44:11Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > And of course there is the Egyptian God Amen [http://www.touregypt.net/amen.htm](http://www.touregypt.net/amen.htm) > > And Christians sign off on prayers with “Amen”. Do Jews sign off that way, I don’t remember, but seem to recall they do? we do but we pronounce ah Main. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/24 "2008-10-16T23:49:30Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I’m not seeing the similarities. > > Re Mummification-IIRC Early Christian burial was burial in a family tomb. After your flesh rotted off and they needed your space for a new relative, your bones were swept into a pile with the rest of the family. > > Re Horus- Horus was born of an incestuous union between sister and dead-at-the-time brother. Horus purpose in life was to kill his uncle. I’m not seeing any similarities. Reading through these articles: > **[Dionysus-Osiris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris-Dionysus)** > > B > C > D > G > **[Greco-Roman mysteries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_religions)** > > Mystery religions, mystery cults, sacred mysteries or simply mysteries (Greek: μυστήρια), were religious schools of the Greco-Roman world for which participation was reserved to initiates (mystai). The main characteristic of these religious schools was the secrecy associated with the particulars of the initiation and the ritual practice, which may not be revealed to outsiders. The most famous mysteries of Greco-Roman antiquity were the Eleusinian Mysteries, which predated the Greek Dark Ages. The... > **[Dying-and-rising god](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity)** > > A dying-and-rising god, life–death–rebirth deity, or resurrection deity is a religious motif in which a god or goddess dies and is resurrected. Examples of gods who die and later return to life are most often cited from the religions of the ancient Near East. The traditions influenced by them include the Greco-Roman mythology. > The concept of a dying-and-rising god was first proposed in comparative mythology by James Frazer's seminal The Golden Bough (1890). Frazer associated the moti Frazer's in... > **[Dionysian Mysteries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysian_Mysteries)** > > The Dionysian Mysteries were a ritual of ancient Greece and Rome which sometimes used psychoactive substances\[citation needed\] and other trance-inducing techniques (like dance and music) to remove inhibitions. It also provided some liberation for people marginalized by Greek society, such as slaves, outlaws, and non-citizens. In their final phase the Mysteries shifted their emphasis from a chthonic, underworld orientation to a transcendental, mystical one, with Dionysus changing his nature accord... > **[Gnosticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic)** > > Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek γνωστικός (gnōstikós) 'having knowledge'; Koine Greek: \[ɣnostiˈkos\]) is a collection of different religious and philosophical ideas and systems that fully developed by the mid-2nd century among sects of early Christianity and other faiths. It is not a singular, homogeneous tradition or religion, but an umbrella term used by modern scholars to describe different groups and beliefs that shared certain characteristics. These diverse Gnostic groups generally e Although... I believe that the idea isn’t so much that there are striking similarities, and more that at that particular period of time, people were making stuff up left and right. The Mystery cults, for instance, were largely just fantastic social clubs like you might see in Eyes Wide Shut. There wasn’t a strong goal to create something deep and philosophical, but rather to have ornate rituals and symbolism mixed together in a fanciful way. So _starting with_ Dionysus and Osiris, they began coming up with various stories that further and further ceased having any close kinship with the originals, picking up new names as time went on and the histories diverged too much. Amongst all of that, certain commonalities are there–perhaps only by virtue of scattershot–but the point is that you could find just as complicated mythologies sharing anywhere from all or none of the same elements, though in specific detail all quite different at the same time, and all apparently descended from Osiris and Dionysus. To give example, there is no real close link between [Saint Nicholas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_nicholas) and [Saint Nicholas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_claus). So though there might be some Egyptian stuff in there, it might not be readily recognizable as such without passing it through a couple of transitions and combinations with other stories. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/25 "2008-10-16T23:52:53Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Many of the items claimed for Horus have actualy been made in the case of Mithras – the December 25 birth, the title “Savior”, and the resurrection three days after death. This, I note, is the relatively late Mithraism, not the much older Zoroastrian religion. See David Ulansey’s book on The Origin of the Mithraic Mysteries. That’s right. These elements post-date the time of JEsus, rather than predating them. If anything, it’s Christianity which influenced Mithraism, not the other way around. Therein lies the problem. People tend to grab whatever similarities they see without considering which religion influenced which. In addition, they tend to lump various mythologies together – [conflating Horus and Osiris](http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html), for example. In addition, people tend to seize some very tenuous similarities and exaggerate them. For example, much has been said about how Mithra was born of a virgin, just like Jesus was. Well, only in the sense that [Mithra was born out of solid rock](http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html), and rocks can’t have sex. Sadly, these distinctions tend to be missed by people who get all excited about these supposed parallels. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/26 "2008-10-17T02:48:23Z")
[Undecided] Adrian writes: \> Well, the Egyptians were the first to practice Monotheism. Many scholars argue that the worship of Aten was not monotheism but instead was henotheism. In other words, Aten was not the only god tn that system. He was the supreme god and the only one who should be worshipped. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/27 "2008-10-17T02:54:44Z")
The story of Moses’ birth and adoption into the royal house of Egypt (ie., stuffed in a basket and floated down the Nile to be found by the pharoah’s daughter Batya) is remarkably close to the story of Horus’ birth - he was shoved into a basket by his mother, Isis, and hidden from Seth among bulrushes by the Nile. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/28 "2008-10-17T02:57:54Z")
I always wondered if that was simply a case of one myth borrowing from another or if mom actually thought ‘I will hide my baby in a basket among the bullrushes. Those darn Egyptians will associate it with the myth of Horus and take it as a sign’ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/29 "2008-10-17T03:03:33Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I always wondered if that was simply a case of one myth borrowing from another or if mom actually thought ‘I will hide my baby in a basket among the bullrushes. Those darn Egyptians will associate it with the myth of Horus and take it as a sign’ There’s no mention of any such intent in the KJV Bible, and I’d say there’s a 99.999% chance that the story is aprocryphal anyway. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/30 "2008-10-17T04:11:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The story of Moses’ birth and adoption into the royal house of Egypt (ie., stuffed in a basket and floated down the Nile to be found by the pharoah’s daughter Batya) is remarkably close to the story of Horus’ birth - he was shoved into a basket by his mother, Isis, and hidden from Seth among bulrushes by the Nile. I have yet to find any independent sources that make this claim regarding Horus. The only places where I’ve ever seen this are various websites that push the alleged Jesus-Horus connection. As far as I can tell, not even D. M. Murdock (who used the pseudonym “Acharya S” in publishing these theories) makes that particular claim. I suspect that people who push this Moses-Horus parallelism are actually thinking of Osiris, not Horus. [According to the legend, the evil god Set locked Horus in a coffin and threw it into the nile.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_Osiris_and_Isis#The_coffin_and_the_acacia) This wasn’t an attempt by Isis to save Osiris; quite the contrary; it was a death plot! ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/31 "2008-10-17T06:39:35Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > [Undecided] Adrian writes: > > \> Well, the Egyptians were the first to practice Monotheism. > > Many scholars argue that the worship of Aten was not monotheism but instead was henotheism. In other words, Aten was not the only god tn that system. He was the supreme god and the only one who should be worshipped. The Hebrews too were henotheists rather than monotheists. The God of the Pentateuch is one among many gods, the tribal god of the Hebrews. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/32 "2008-10-17T11:34:29Z")
If one would like to learn more about how much like Osiris worshiped was like Christianity, they could read; Osisis & The Egyptian Resurrection 2 volumns Written by E.A. Wallis Budge,. This is a writing about pre-Dynasty times. The comparison to Jesus is uncanny. Osiris was called God, Son of God, The good shepard, Osiris wasn’t crucified but he was choped apart and Isis his sister-wife Found his parts and put him back together, she couldn’t find his penis so to conceive Horus she took the form of a dove and conceived Horus in that manner.The Egyptians also had a bread and wine sacrifice, one woman said there is still a small Osiris cult in Egypt. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/33 "2008-10-17T11:55:05Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s right. These elements post-date the time of JEsus, rather than predating them. You misunderstand “late Mithraism” if you think ['m supporting your claims. I’m referring to the mystery cult of Mithras, as opposed to the Ahura Mazda Mithraism of Persia. As far as i know, the elements I cite aree part of the pre-Christian late Mithraism. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/34 "2008-10-17T11:59:10Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > If one would like to learn more about how much like Osiris worshiped was like Christianity, they could read; Osisis & The Egyptian Resurrection 2 volumns Written by E.A. Wallis Budge,. > > This is a writing about pre-Dynasty times. > > The comparison to Jesus is uncanny. Osiris was called God, Son of God, The good shepard, Osiris wasn’t crucified but he was choped apart and Isis his sister-wife Found his parts and put him back together, she couldn’t find his penis so to conceive Horus she took the form of a dove and conceived Horus in that manner.The Egyptians also had a bread and wine sacrifice, one woman said there is still a small Osiris cult in Egypt. > > Monavis Woo! Uncanny. I’ll convert immediately. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/35 "2008-10-17T13:47:26Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > You misunderstand “late Mithraism” if you think ['m supporting your claims. I’m referring to the mystery cult of Mithras, as opposed to the Ahura Mazda Mithraism of Persia. As far as i know, the elements I cite aree part of the pre-Christian late Mithraism. Not according to the citations that I provided, though. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/36 "2008-10-17T14:09:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Not according to the citations that I provided, though. i see your cite debunking the extensive list of parallels proposed by others, but not the ones I note. I also observe that your cite approvingly quotes Ulansey, my source. The birthday of the Invincible Sun was a Roman holiday, long predating Christinity, and set on Dec. 25. That it became associated with Mithras wouldn’t be surprising, since (as ulansey notes) Mithras was associated with the Invincible Sun. Inconsistencies like having a birth story that had him coming from solid rock doesn’t bother some people. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/37 "2008-10-17T14:17:15Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > I have yet to find any independent sources that make this claim regarding Horus. The only places where I’ve ever seen this are various websites that push the alleged Jesus-Horus connection. As far as I can tell, not even D. M. Murdock (who used the pseudonym “Acharya S” in publishing these theories) makes that particular claim. > > I suspect that people who push this Moses-Horus parallelism are actually thinking of Osiris, not Horus. [According to the legend, the evil god Set locked Horus in a coffin and threw it into the nile.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_Osiris_and_Isis#The_coffin_and_the_acacia) This wasn’t an attempt by Isis to save Osiris; quite the contrary; it was a death plot! Huh. Ignorance fought. I didn’t even bother to double-check that; it was in my history textbook. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/38 "2008-10-17T16:14:53Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > i > The birthday of the Invincible Sun was a Roman holiday, long predating Christinity, and set on Dec. 25. That it became associated with Mithras wouldn’t be surprising, since (as ulansey notes) Mithras was associated with the Invincible Sun. Inconsistencies like having a birth story that had him coming from solid rock doesn’t bother some people. Except that it was not set on Dec 25th, it was set on the Solstice, which makes sense. Of course the date of the Solstice has moved around a bit. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/39 "2008-10-17T20:57:57Z")
That, and the fact that the early church did NOT regard December 25th as the birthdate of the Messiah. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183/40 "2008-10-17T21:15:40Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > The birthday of the Invincible Sun was a Roman holiday, long predating Christinity, and set on Dec. 25. No it wasn’t. The festival wasn’t created until the third century at the earliest, and the first reference to it comes from a fourth century document. There were Roman holidays predating Christianity from around that time period, most notably Saturnalia, but that, as you can guess from the name, was in honor of Saturn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christianity-absorb-any-ideas-from-the-ancient-egyptian-mythology/468183.md?page=3)