# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/201 "2014-01-11T23:27:20Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Maybe it’s just because we’ve been watching _The Sopranos_ straight through these past few months, but I can’t help but see and hear Tony Soprano when Christie is there. Really? Cuz he’s a dead-ringer for [Bobby Bacala](https://www.google.com/search?q=chris+christie+bobby+bacala&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Rc3RUu2mEebNsQSQsoGIDA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=798). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/202 "2014-01-12T00:14:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Bill Baroni and David Wildstein better start packing bags for prison. These texts are extremely serious. > [@RickJay](#): > > If he didn’t know, it casts a great deal of extremely troubling doubt on his judgment with regards to appointing people to important positions. TPM published a letter by somebody who once had Wildstein as a mayor: > [@Letter at TPM](#): > > ``` > On the surface, it seems strange that a talented, charismatic politician like Christie is making so many mistakes with this. But nobody in Livingston finds it strange at all. That's because we remember when David Wildstein was mayor. > > He was elected young, probably 30 at the most. And he immediately brought a reign of insanity to peaceful Livingston. He practiced a particularly mean-spirited slash and burn style of politics, a combination of Bob Haldeman and Idi Amin. He spread false rumors about people, lied, and tried to ruin reputations of decent people to advance his own career. He is easily the most hated mayor in this town's history, hands down. > > He is a truly bad guy, exactly the wrong person you want with any power. . > > Everyone I talk to agrees that closing lanes to get back at a mayor is right out of the Wildstein playbook. But since Wildstein is capable of anything, a lot of people also believe that he would have no problem saying Christie ordered him to close the lanes, whether it's true or not. That explains the odd, erratic behavior from the Governor....he's caught between a rock and a hard place. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/david-wildstein-they-play-rough > > ``` Wildstein sounds like a real piece of work. It’s interesting that he isn’t the only person facing possible criminal charges in this incident. Smart staff members can sense what sorts of supporters or co-workers are toxic. > [@brazil84](#): > > Yes, but the question I was asking is what, if anything, Sokolich did to escalate things after Wildstein blew him off. Given the reports that Sokolich and Christie settled their differences today, we may never know. Ok. I couldn’t find any good info on this, though Josh Marshall seems to think he, “[Fought like crazy](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/it-doesnt-fit),” to get the lanes re-opened. But set that aside for a moment and remember that Fort Lee has all of 35,732 residents. This isn’t a large city and the mayor is paid part time. I think he’s done pretty well, given that he’s had to operate at several levels above what he signed up for. From part time Mayor to national spotlight. His framing of the Serb/Croat issue was handled well for example. And now for a little routine sidewalk sweeping. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Who accused the WSJ of lying? You? Um, no that would be you. Recall: > [@doorhinge](#): > > Or an outright lie made up by someone writing for the daily kos. > > What’s one more unverified rumor at this point in time? > [@MacCat](#): > > They were quoting the Wall Street Journal. **doorhinge** ’s positions appear to shift with the prevailing winds: only his lack of substantiation remains constant. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/203 "2014-01-12T00:18:56Z")
Looks like the [“I” Word](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/11/chris-christie-scandal_n_4582353.html) is finally being bandied about. Prediction: Christie is out of a job before Easter. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/204 "2014-01-12T01:19:44Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Prediction: Christie is out of a job before Easter. Fortunately for him, the [job market](http://www.metro.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Brady-and-the-Sorry-Bunny.jpg) should have a little blip around that time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/205 "2014-01-12T03:01:09Z")
While Fort Lee does only have 35,000 residents, there are other towns to the south and west (Edgewater, Cliffside Park, Palisades Park, Leonia, Bogota, and more) that will use those access points. Also, speaking from past experience, some people may even get off the highway (Rte 4 was the roadway that I exited from) and get back onto the road closer to the toll plaza. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/206 "2014-01-12T03:51:18Z")
Impeach? Fuhgeddaboudit! This is New Jersey. By their standards shutting a bridge down for a few days is like closing a bingo parlor. 😛 This is just a minor blip in a long line of dirty politics. It may derail any Presidential run if they can tie Christie to the bridge lane closing. A National election is a much bigger stage. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Looks like the [“I” Word](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/11/chris-christie-scandal_n_4582353.html) is finally being bandied about. > > Prediction: Christie is out of a job before Easter. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/207 "2014-01-12T04:05:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Looks like the [“I” Word](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/11/chris-christie-scandal_n_4582353.html) is finally being bandied about. > > Prediction: Christie is out of a job before Easter. People toss around impeachment like it was a traffic ticket. Talk about political theater. Could it happen? Well, the Assembly is 60% Democrats and only a simple majority is needed for impeachment. Conviction, though? The Senate has 24 Democrats and 16 Republicans. Two-thirds, or 27 votes, are needed to convict. Christie is two months removed from an election he won by like 90 points. Those voters haven’t all turned against him. And they already think he did it or knew about it because, well, because they live in New Jersey. Any state, really. Nobody in America deep down believes his denial. You don’t attack the King until you know you can kill him. May I remind you that Rob Ford is still the Mayor of Toronto and is planning on running for re-election? Christie is wounded but nowhere near dead. There won’t be a show impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/208 "2014-01-12T04:42:40Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > May I remind you that Rob Ford is still the Mayor of Toronto and is planning on running for re-election? Note that it appears that the only reason that Rob Ford is still in office is that Toronto doesn’t have a procedure for impeaching or removing a mayor from office. The Toronto City Council stripped Ford of many of his mayoral powers in November. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/209 "2014-01-12T10:37:01Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Really? Cuz he’s a dead-ringer for [Bobby Bacala](https://www.google.com/search?q=chris+christie+bobby+bacala&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Rc3RUu2mEebNsQSQsoGIDA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=798). That’s true! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/210 "2014-01-12T13:18:34Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Note that it appears that the only reason that Rob Ford is still in office is that Toronto doesn’t have a procedure for impeaching or removing a mayor from office. The Toronto City Council stripped Ford of many of his mayoral powers in November. Yes, I understand the difference in systems. The similarity is that Ford hasn’t lost the people. He has a lot of supporters that are still standing with him. If those had all vanished he’s be gone one way or another. Christie also is keeping most of his supporters. Politicians understand that, on both sides. And they remember what happened to the Republicans in 1998 when they impeached Clinton but didn’t have any support outside of their core base. The people didn’t want Clinton removed from office and that stiffened spines. Only half a dozen governors were removed from office through impeachment in the entire 20th century. Impeachment is a huge and unwieldy club. It needs the perfect target. My prediction is that this isn’t one. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/211 "2014-01-12T13:55:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Impeach? Fuhgeddaboudit! This is New Jersey. By their standards shutting a bridge down for a few days is like closing a bingo parlor. 😛 This is just a minor blip in a long line of dirty politics. I would have the same reaction, but I think all the hype made about Christie as the 2016 Republican nomination might come back to bite him. He’s not just some NJ governor; he’s a man a significant portion of the country viewed as the next President. Both parties have reasons to want to get him out of the way, and with the eyes of the nation fixed on the story, NJ can’t just go and be dysfunctional as usual. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/212 "2014-01-12T14:41:13Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > People toss around impeachment like it was a traffic ticket. Talk about political theater. > > Could it happen? Well, the Assembly is 60% Democrats and only a simple majority is needed for impeachment. > > Conviction, though? The Senate has 24 Democrats and 16 Republicans. Two-thirds, or 27 votes, are needed to convict. > > Christie is two months removed from an election he won by like 90 points. Those voters haven’t all turned against him. And they already think he did it or knew about it because, well, because they live in New Jersey. Any state, really. Nobody in America deep down believes his denial. > > You don’t attack the King until you know you can kill him. May I remind you that Rob Ford is still the Mayor of Toronto and is planning on running for re-election? Christie is wounded but nowhere near dead. There won’t be a show impeachment. I don’t think he’ll be impeached, either. He’ll resign. When it is revealed, and it will be, that he approved of or conceived of the intentional traffic shutdown, he will resign. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/213 "2014-01-12T15:09:07Z")
Some new stuff they’re talking about on Up with Steve Kornacki, is how this all might be about a billion dollar deal in Fort Lee that is very dependent on those extra lanes. Steve is really doing some good work on this story. He worked for Wildstein and knows a lot of the main players in this scandal. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/214 "2014-01-12T16:02:37Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > … And now for a little routine sidewalk sweeping. > > Um, no that would be you. Recall: > > **doorhinge** ’s positions appear to shift with the prevailing winds: only his lack of substantiation remains constant. Hahaha. Check the timeline of the posts you quoted. I responded to an uncited daily kos reference which was later followed by an uncited reference to a Wall Street Journal. Considering the increasing number of rumors associated with Christies involvement (the fact that the bridge was actually closed is NOT a rumor), I expected more than just another unsubstantiated internet claim. Even you must have noticed that I never addressed the uncited WSJ reference or the WSJ article. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/215 "2014-01-12T16:05:32Z")
The bridge lane study may of been done with punitive intentions. But it did show the vulnerability of that bridge and the devastating effect it would be to lose it. I hope the Port Authority engineers are thinking about some kind of backup plan. What if Hurricane Sandy had severely damaged it? They need another bridge or alternate route. This “test” better be a wake up call to the Port Authority. I know the news said there was an alternate route but it added over an hour to people’s commute. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/216 "2014-01-12T16:16:53Z")
I seriously doubt Christie would resign under any circumstances. Where is a good site for another bridge in New Jersey? I bet there are a number of spots in the Northeast that could use a fancy new bridge- traffic’s a mess. Is this the next federal jobs program/Christie’s presidential platform? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/217 "2014-01-12T16:17:03Z")
If they’re coming from Jersey to Manhattan, the alternate route should go through Pennsylvania. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/218 "2014-01-12T16:57:36Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I responded to an uncited daily kos reference which was later followed by an uncited reference to a Wall Street Journal. Second definition from Merriam-Webster: _to mention (something) especially as an example or to support an idea or opinion._ Did you require a link or something to consider what was becoming known to those following closely as true? > [@](#): > > Considering the increasing number of rumors associated with Christies involvement (the fact that the bridge was actually closed is NOT a rumor), I expected more than just another unsubstantiated internet claim. Where does “actually closed” come from? > [@](#): > > Even you must have noticed that I never addressed the uncited WSJ reference or the WSJ article. We all did. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/219 "2014-01-12T17:23:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The bridge lane study may of been done with punitive intentions. But it did show the vulnerability of that bridge and the devastating effect it would be to lose it. I hope the Port Authority engineers are thinking about some kind of backup plan. What if Hurricane Sandy had severely damaged it? > > They need another bridge or alternate route. This “test” better be a wake up call to the Port Authority. For commuters, the alternate routes would be the Tappan Zee Bridge; Lincoln Tunnel; the Holland Tunnel; the ferry; the PATH; and the New Jersey Transit Trains. It would be pretty miserable but people would get to work. For much of the commerce in the Northeast, the alternate route would be the Tappan Zee Bridge. Which is actually in the process of being replaced. I doubt it’s really practical to have a backup which would allow business as usual. I think if you built a big new bridge, it wouldn’t be long before the extra capacity got soaked up by regular users. So that you would still have a pretty miserable situation if the GWB were out of service. Rather than building new routes into New York City, perhaps the angle is to use tax breaks and other incentives to further encourage New York City employers to move their back office operations to the outer suburbs. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/220 "2014-01-12T17:31:13Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t think he’ll be impeached, either. He’ll resign. When it is revealed, and it will be, that he approved of or conceived of the intentional traffic shutdown, he will resign. My prediction is that it will blow over and fizzle out without such a revelation. The best his enemies can realistically hope for is that one of his underlings points the finger at him without anything in writing to back them up. In such a case, he can just follow Bill Clinton’s advice – deny deny deny. In short, I predict that he will not resign. If I think of it, I will try to find this post (perhaps with a bookmark) in a few months. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=12)