# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/21 "2014-01-09T16:35:13Z")
This isn’t the only bullying incident. There are other examples out there of Christie playing pretty rough with those that don’t toe his line. There is a pattern there, and it looks anything but presidential. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/22 "2014-01-09T16:37:53Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Quite frankly, I think this will amount to essentially nothing and it will be long forgotten when he starts up his presidential campaign. I disagree, republican primary voters are scared enough of big government as it is, THIS is exactly the kind of thing they fear. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/23 "2014-01-09T16:39:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This isn’t the only bullying incident. There are other examples out there of Christie playing pretty rough with those that don’t toe his line. There is a pattern there, and it looks anything but presidential. I look forward to the compilation video come campaigning time. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/24 "2014-01-09T16:40:25Z")
From now on he’ll have to stick to lower-profile stuff like screaming at teachers. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/25 "2014-01-09T16:43:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This isn’t the only bullying incident. There are other examples out there of Christie playing pretty rough with those that don’t toe his line. There is a pattern there, and it looks anything but presidential. Is it? IMHO, if Obama were more of a bully, he’d be a better president. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/26 "2014-01-09T16:44:26Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > So, with that in mind, the idea that the governor should know about this sort of thing, is ridiculous. He’s the governor, chances are that he gets briefed on all sorts of things and, presuming he had no advanced knowledge, I’d expect him to get some sort of brief along the lines of the DoT doing a traffic study and it causing problems. Even if it IS the busiest bridge in the world, there’s so much more going on in the state that the governor has to keep an eye on that it’s ridiculous to expect him to be directly aware of any specific situation like that. That’s the whole point of him having a staff and delegating responsibility I am going to respectfully disagree with you on this. I believe you are far overstating the “I was very busy with other things…” argument. This shutdown was well covered on the news when it was occurring. In any scenario you construct, he would have had personal awareness from the news reports. And it would have been something he needed to address. If he is really planning on pulling the “I know nothing” defense, then what does THAT say about his leadership? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/27 "2014-01-09T16:46:58Z")
Obama does seem to channel George McFly. There’s a difference between standing up to bullies and being one. Yes, I’d like him to call out the GOP for being the obstructionist pieces of shit that they are. But there are [plenty of incidents](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/25/nyregion/accounts-of-petty-retribution-reinforce-christies-bullying-image.html?_r=0) that reinforce a pretty petty image. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/28 "2014-01-09T16:49:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Is it? IMHO, if Obama were more of a bully, he’d be a better president. There are some cases where that’s true, but the “Obama should be tougher” thing is way, way overstated. Anyway if bullying people is your primary way of dealing with people you’re not going to do a good job. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/29 "2014-01-09T16:49:24Z")
It’s hard to believe that Christie was not aware of what was going on given that (1) the situation lasted for a few days; and (2) it was a childhood friend of his who gave the actual order. But I agree that most likely, at a minimum, **yellowjacket** ’s scenario is correct, that Christie let it be known that it would be nice if something unpleasant were to happen in Fort Lee. By the way, am I the only one here who got stuck in the Christie Traffic Jam? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/30 "2014-01-09T16:52:23Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It’s hard to believe that Christie was not aware of what was going on given that (1) the situation lasted for a few days; and (2) it was a childhood friend of his who gave the actual order. > > But I agree that most likely, at a minimum, **yellowjacket** ’s scenario is correct, that Christie let it be known that it would be nice if something unpleasant were to happen in Fort Lee. > > By the way, am I the only one here who got stuck in the Christie Traffic Jam? Did he say “Will no-one rid me of this meddlesome priest?” ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/31 "2014-01-09T16:55:17Z")
This is inexcusable. He’s a petty jackass and he needs to resign. Either he decided to personally punish residents of a NJ town because they didn’t vote for him or he hired officials who did without his knowledge. As a NJ resident, I want his ass out of public office. No people should be literally suffer this kind of childish consequences if they fail to vote for someone. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/32 "2014-01-09T16:56:44Z")
I’m hard pressed to understand why it would be necessary to block lanes to conduct a legitimate traffic study. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/33 "2014-01-09T17:04:23Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Stuff like this makes me wonder if some politicians have policies that their subordinates can’t use text messaging or social media, just to prevent there being a record of the scumbag stuff they did. I wonder about this, too, because the emails are so obviously damaging. It makes me wonder if there’s lot of malfeasance being arranged by email, but its exposure is so rare that it seems low risk. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Barring a smoking gun I doubt Christie will go down for this, but I think the harm is already being done. If he knew, he’s toast; if he didn’t know, he should have. It will make any future run for President much harder for him, particular among those Democrats who might have given him serious consideration otherwise. The problem is that what Kelly and Wildstein did by themselves is criminal if there was no real traffic study (as there really doesn’t seem to be). At the very least it’s “honest services fraud”, and at worst it’s actual extortion. Kelly is in his inner circle; Wildstein is a crony appointment. They’ll go to jail or testify against others, and it’s very, very hard for Christie to distance himself from them–in his press conference this morning, he basically took the “I’m an incompetent manager of my staff, not evil” line. He’s fired Kelly and shit all over her in the press conference, and his advisor Bill Stepien has been “moved to a more important position”. He’s piling corpses in front of him, hoping it’ll be enough to stop the bullets. Oh, and Wildstein was supposed to testify at the legislature about his role in it, but sued to prevent that, and the US attorney has opened an official inquiry. So, yeah, Kelly and Wildstein are going to jail, and now it’s all “will they talk?” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/34 "2014-01-09T17:09:29Z")
> [@hansel](#): > > Oh, and Wildstein was supposed to testify at the legislature about his role in it, but sued to prevent that From what I can see, the judge ruled against him and he’ll have to testify. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/35 "2014-01-09T17:13:59Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > This is inexcusable. He’s a petty jackass and he needs to resign. Either he decided to personally punish residents of a NJ town because they didn’t vote for him or he hired officials who did without his knowledge. As a NJ resident, I want his ass out of public office. No people should be literally suffer this kind of childish consequences if they fail to vote for someone. The shutdown wasn’t because of the way Fort Lee voted. It was aimed at Mayor Mark Sokolich because he hadn’t endorsed Christie. It’s worth noted that Sokolich is a Democrat so while Christie received cross-party endorsements, I don’t think his campaign should feel Sokolich “owed” them an endorsement. The even more ironic point is that Sokolich apparently didn’t actually refuse to endorse Christie. He says he was asked to endorse Christie but then Christie’s representatives dropped the matter before he responded, apparently believing he would say no. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/36 "2014-01-09T17:14:03Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > I’m hard pressed to understand why it would be necessary to block lanes to conduct a legitimate traffic study. Well the blocked lanes were allocated to another approach. A lot of commuters have a choice of approaches so if the cones are re-arranged they will switch to another approach. See, the wait is almost always significantly shorter if you go by local streets in Fort Lee than if you take a highway. Presumably this is set up by the Port Authority because backed up traffic on the highways is less of a problem than backed up traffic on local streets in Fort Lee. Which makes sense, but the result is that a lot of commuters who would otherwise use a highway instead choose the local streets. Which means that still more lanes have to be allocated to Fort Lee in order to avoid creating local traffic problems. During rush hour, it’s very common for there to be a 45 minute backup on the I-95 approach to the bridge but only a 10 or 15 minute delay on the local streets in Fort Lee. So in theory, one could see the Port Authority trying to tweak the system in order to see if it will make the local approaches less attractive to balance out the wait times and encourage people with a choice to use the highways. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/37 "2014-01-09T17:15:23Z")
Best comment from Jon Stewart on The Daily Show last night: > [@](#): > > You can see Paul Ryan’s boner from outer space ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/38 "2014-01-09T17:17:07Z")
As others have touched on, Christie either knew what his staff was up to, OR this kind of crap was standard operating procedure, so his staff felt comfortable doing it without his approval – and maybe they went too far this time. Unless those involved are willing to pull a G. Gordon Liddy, The Governor formerly known as Tubby is toast as far as his Presidential ambitions go. He had a very narrow window of opportunity to get through the wacky GOP primaries, and now it’s gone. I’m not sure about NJ impeachment processes, but if it’s as difficult as the federal process, he’ll probably survive to complete the 4 years of his current term, but he’ll be severely weakened. “The bigger they are, the harder they fall.” ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/39 "2014-01-09T17:17:31Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > So in theory, one could see the Port Authority trying to tweak the system in order to see if it will make the local approaches less attractive to balance out the wait times and encourage people with a choice to use the highways. In practice, this would be done on a computer with traffic simulations. You would never cause this kind of obvious pain to a community to see if the system needs tweaks. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/40 "2014-01-09T17:18:00Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It’s hard to believe that Christie was not aware of what was going on given that (1) the situation lasted for a few days; and (2) it was a childhood friend of his who gave the actual order. That’s the part that can’t possibly pass the smell test. Let’s assume he had no knowledge of the initiation of this event for the moment. During the four days this was going on and people were scrambling for answers, at no point did Christie ask why his staff was doing this? And, again, assuming they lied and said it was a traffic study, he bought that line from them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=3)