# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/401 "2014-01-21T15:45:22Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > If true - that alone should be enough to finish his career right? Wouldn’t outright blackmail of that sort (assuming Lewis can prove it) be illegal? Impeachable? Blackmail? What blackmail? Lewis can prove that Lewis was ineligible to run for the Senate seat. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/402 "2014-01-21T17:17:26Z")
[Republican strategy to excuse misdeeds is to attack liberals and act like they’ve done nothing wrong.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/01/21/how-chris-christie-is-trying-to-turn-bridge-gate-into-a-partisan-scrum-and-how-its-working/) Keep that in mind especially when they try that on this board. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/403 "2014-01-21T17:57:58Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > [Republican strategy to excuse misdeeds is to attack liberals and act like they’ve done nothing wrong.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/01/21/how-chris-christie-is-trying-to-turn-bridge-gate-into-a-partisan-scrum-and-how-its-working/) Keep that in mind especially when they try that on this board. The only thing the anti-Christie side has to prove is the Christie was ACTUALLY involved in the Ft Lee tollbooth lane reductions. Since they can’t seem to be able to do that, they appear to be grasping at any and every straw they see. Your linked article appears to be a defense of the lame efforts mounted by the entertainers on MSNBC. Written by an MSNBC employee. What’s the MSNBC motto? “Just 'cause we can’t prove it, doesn’t mean it’s not what we say it is.” _Republicans – from major donors to the conservative base – are deeply skeptical of MSNBC, believing it represents an offshoot of the Democratic party. (Full disclosure: I am under contract with MSNBC and occasionally guest-host for Chuck Todd and Andrea Mitchell._ MSNBC should register as a DNC public relations firm. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/404 "2014-01-21T17:59:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The only thing the anti-Christie side has to prove is the Christie was ACTUALLY involved in the Ft Lee tollbooth lane reductions. Since they can’t seem to be able to do that, they appear to be grasping at any and every straw they see. It’s actually still very bad if some of his top advisers were responsible, and we already know that they were. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/405 "2014-01-21T18:07:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > MSNBC should register as a DNC public relations firm. And Christie made a comparison to MSNBC and Fox News, as if they proved anything. Fox News should be registered as a hate group. Also, considering Christie has been caught in outright, direct lies about the matter that republicans are willing to blow off, I’m totally willing to accept that as proof and realize that _nothing_ will be proof enough for republicans - it never is. Why, exactly, should we accept the standards of proof from the political party who insists the president is lying about his birth certificate? If your party blows all its credibility with shit like that, nobody intelligent is ever going to take you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/406 "2014-01-21T18:08:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The only thing the anti-Christie side has to prove is the Christie was ACTUALLY involved in the Ft Lee tollbooth lane reductions. Since they can’t seem to be able to do that, they appear to be grasping at any and every straw they see. > > Your linked article appears to be a defense of the lame efforts mounted by the entertainers on MSNBC. Written by an MSNBC employee. What’s the MSNBC motto? “Just 'cause we can’t prove it, doesn’t mean it’s not what we say it is.” > > _Republicans – from major donors to the conservative base – are deeply skeptical of MSNBC, believing it represents an offshoot of the Democratic party. (Full disclosure: I am under contract with MSNBC and occasionally guest-host for Chuck Todd and Andrea Mitchell._ > > MSNBC should register as a DNC public relations firm. Be patient. There is a US Attorney investigating and he’s going to get the unredacted emails and, if he needs to, get some people to talk under immunity. What you want us to believe is that Christie’s staff would take it upon itself to do such a petty vindictive thing without his knowledge or approval. I’m not buying it, but I’ll trust what the US Attorney says in his final report. The “entertainers” at MSNBC, unlike their “counterparts” at FOX, practice professional journalism ethics. If they’re wrong, they admit it. If they’re offering speculation, they say so. Sure, Republicans hate MSNBC, because its audience thinks (unlike FOX viewers) and that’s bad for elections from their point of view. Go ahead and beat the anti-MSNBC drum. Won’t do you any good, but go ahead. I am enjoying watching this play out. Christie’s current line is “Boy, I delegate lots of authority to my staff. And by the way, they aren’t very good people”. JUST the kind of thing voters want in an exectutive. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/407 "2014-01-21T18:38:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s actually still very bad if some of his top advisers were responsible, and we already know that they were. Has anyone proved that Christie was involved in the tollbooth restrictions yet? Did Carl Lewis meet the requirements to run for the Senate in NJ? Did the temporary tollbooth restrictions actually endanger a deal between the owners of a new shopping mall project and it’s financial backers? How many other strawmen will MSNBC produce to fill airtime before the truth is actually discovered? It’s not as if Christie granted Executive Privilege to prevent anyone from discussing the issue with the AG. A governor can’t even authorize EP to cover up any illegal activity “he” might be involved in. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/408 "2014-01-21T18:40:01Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Has anyone proved that Christie was involved in the tollbooth restrictions yet? What did you miss here? Is it “if?” > [@doorhinge](#): > > The only thing the anti-Christie side has to prove is the Christie was ACTUALLY involved in the Ft Lee tollbooth lane reductions. > [@Marley23](#): > > It’s actually still very bad if some of his top advisers were responsible, and we already know that they were. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/409 "2014-01-21T18:42:23Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > …Also, considering Christie has been caught in outright, direct lies about the matter that republicans are willing to blow off, I’m totally willing to accept that as proof and realize that _nothing_ will be proof enough for republicans - it never is. Considering the amount of prior confusion in this thread, what, specifically, are the “outright, direct lies” that you say Christie has been “caught in”? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/410 "2014-01-21T18:48:05Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Considering the amount of prior confusion in this thread, what, specifically, are the “outright, direct lies” that you say Christie has been “caught in”? Here you go. [http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2014/01/14/christie-official-who-arranged-bridge-closures-together-during-fiasco/](http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2014/01/14/christie-official-who-arranged-bridge-closures-together-during-fiasco/) ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/411 "2014-01-21T19:19:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Considering the amount of prior confusion in this thread, what, specifically, are the “outright, direct lies” that you say Christie has been “caught in”? Are you willing to apologize for attempting (I use the word “attempt” because you’re not good at it) to defend a scumbag politician if you end up being proven wrong, here? I asked before and you didn’t answer. I’m not going to engage in answering your questions unless you answer, as I see no reason to treat people with respect if they refuse to do the same to me. Alternatively: My cite is this thread. You might want to try reading it. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/412 "2014-01-21T20:01:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Here you go. [http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2014/01/14/christie-official-who-arranged-bridge-closures-together-during-fiasco/](http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2014/01/14/christie-official-who-arranged-bridge-closures-together-during-fiasco/) Thanks. It still sounds as if several politicians met that day for a photo-op and a little glad-handing. But still no smoking gun. With all of the ongoing investigations, I’m sure someone will get to the bottom of MSNBC’s Christie-gate. \*It isn’t known what, if anything, Mr. Christie discussed with David Wildstein that day, when the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey official was among the delegation of Mr. Christie’s representatives who welcomed him to the site of the World Trade Center for the commemoration of the 12th anniversary of the terrorist attacks there. Christie spokesman Colin Reed said, “Of course, Governor Christie attended the September 11th ceremony as he has done every year since he took office. He had numerous interactions with public officials that morning, including representatives of the Port Authority. They were all there for one reason – to pay tribute to the heroes of 9/11.”\* Does the photo show two political ships passing or does it “suggest” that they were passing notes to one another? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/413 "2014-01-21T20:02:08Z")
In case anyone thinks that the claims from Carl Lewis are simply a piling on of false accusations in the wake of the bridge scandal, Lewis was making the claim back in 2011. > **[New Jersey Official Halts Carl Lewis’s Bid for the Legislature (Published 2011)](https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/nyregion/residency-ruling-halts-carl-lewiss-bid-for-new-jersey-senate.html?_r=0)** > > The New Jersey lieutenant governor determined that the Olympian had not lived in the state long enough to run for a seat in the Legislature. > [@](#): > > Mr. Lewis, 49, has said that Mr. Christie tried to talk him out of running against Senator Dawn Marie Addiego, a Republican. On Monday, he told The Philadelphia Inquirer that the governor had said that in retaliation, he would kill a youth fitness program Mr. Lewis wanted to start, a claim Mr. Christie’s office denied. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/414 "2014-01-21T20:06:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Does the photo show two political ships passing or does it “suggest” that they were passing notes to one another? More like a barge and a tug. I don’t see any suggestion that the two discussed the bridge at that time but it does invalidate Christie’s claim that he had not seen Wildstein for some time. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/415 "2014-01-21T20:11:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What did you miss here? Is it “if?” “IF” is what is driving most of the stories about Christie and the tollbooth debacle. “If” this, “if” that. What “if” this happened? What “if” that happened? Is Carl Lewis too stupid to know that he has to be just as qualified to run for an office in NJ as anyone else running for that office? At this point in time, I’m only interested in what the investigations can actually prove. It’s nice to know that others also understand that this situation is a big “IF”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/416 "2014-01-21T20:14:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “IF” is what is driving most of the stories about Christie and the tollbooth debacle. Yes. But what we know already reflects badly on Christie. Do you understand that? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/417 "2014-01-21T20:15:59Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > [Republican strategy to excuse misdeeds is to attack liberals and act like they’ve done nothing wrong.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/01/21/how-chris-christie-is-trying-to-turn-bridge-gate-into-a-partisan-scrum-and-how-its-working/) Keep that in mind especially when they try that on this board. > [@doorhinge](#): > > The only thing the anti-Christie side has to prove is the Christie was ACTUALLY involved in the Ft Lee tollbooth lane reductions. Since they can’t seem to be able to do that, they appear to be grasping at any and every straw they see. > > Your linked article appears to be a defense of the lame efforts mounted by the entertainers on MSNBC. Written by an MSNBC employee. What’s the MSNBC motto? “Just 'cause we can’t prove it, doesn’t mean it’s not what we say it is.” > > _Republicans – from major donors to the conservative base – are deeply skeptical of MSNBC, believing it represents an offshoot of the Democratic party. (Full disclosure: I am under contract with MSNBC and occasionally guest-host for Chuck Todd and Andrea Mitchell._ > > MSNBC should register as a DNC public relations firm. So your response to an accusation that conservatives attack liberals and deny wrong-doings is an attack on liberals and a denial of wrong-doing. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/418 "2014-01-21T20:16:15Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > In case anyone thinks that the claims from Carl Lewis are simply a piling on of false accusations in the wake of the bridge scandal, Lewis was making the claim back in 2011. > [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/nyregion/residency-ruling-halts-carl-lewiss-bid-for-new-jersey-senate.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/nyregion/residency-ruling-halts-carl-lewiss-bid-for-new-jersey-senate.html?_r=0) Didn’t a judge decide that since Lewis had voted in another state in 2009, that Lewis didn’t meet NJ residency requirement. Lewis wasn’t eligible to run for office so it appears that he decided to blame Christie instead of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/419 "2014-01-21T20:18:21Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “IF” is what is driving most of the stories about Christie and the tollbooth debacle. “If” this, “if” that. What “if” this happened? What “if” that happened? Is Carl Lewis too stupid to know that he has to be just as qualified to run for an office in NJ as anyone else running for that office? > > At this point in time, I’m only interested in what the investigations can actually prove. It’s nice to know that others also understand that this situation is a big “IF”. At this point it’s gone well past “if”. It’s proven that the incident occurred. So the question here is “which” - which officials were involved? Was it Christie himself or just people in his administration? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/420 "2014-01-21T20:19:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “IF” is what is driving most of the stories about Christie and the tollbooth debacle. “If” this, “if” that. What “if” this happened? What “if” that happened? Is Carl Lewis too stupid to know that he has to be just as qualified to run for an office in NJ as anyone else running for that office? > > At this point in time, I’m only interested in what the investigations can actually prove. It’s nice to know that others also understand that this situation is a big “IF”. It’s not about whether he was qualified or not. It’s about his claim that he was threatened with the loss of his program if he ran. Whether he was qualified or not, such threats are unethical. Surely you can see that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=22)