# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/441 "2014-01-21T22:18:46Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The media haven’t found any evidence that Christie was actually involved in the tollbooth restrictions so they run with Lewis’s sourgrapes. At least it fills in any dead air time. As noted by **davidm** above, this does not fit the definition of “sour grapes”. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Of course. Lewis dragged his eligibility through at least two court cases because he never really wanted to run anyway. “At least two court cases”?? Could you list them please? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/442 "2014-01-21T22:19:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That was another hypothetical. Again, note his use of the word “if.” This whole case against Christie is hypothetical. Any day now, I expect someone to actually provide evidence that Christie was actually involved in the tollbooth debacle. Something other than “if”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/443 "2014-01-21T22:23:59Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > This whole case against Christie is hypothetical. It’s not hypothetical so much as it is circumstantial: we know upper levels of his administration were involved. Was he personally involved? I don’t know. It’s bad news even if he wasn’t. There are some hypotheticals regarding the motives for the lane closures, and some of those are big stretches. My guess is that this was just about the mayor of Fort Lee. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/444 "2014-01-21T22:27:48Z")
If he wasn’t aware of it (and approved, if not ordered, it), then he’s too completely fucking clueless to trust in any position of responsibility, right? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/445 "2014-01-21T22:36:26Z")
It went on for 4 days. He had to know about the traffic problems at some point during that time, and he did nothing about it. That’s incompetence at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/446 "2014-01-21T22:36:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > As noted by **davidm** above, this does not fit the definition of “sour grapes”. > “At least two court cases”?? Could you list them please? From the link provided in post 413. \*Carl Lewis’s career in politics may have lasted about as long as one of the Olympic races that made him famous. On Tuesday, the New Jersey lieutenant governor ruled that he had not lived in the state long enough to run for a seat in the State Senate. Democrats said they expected to appeal the decision in court. …Last week, an administrative law judge dismissed Republicans’ challenge to Mr. Lewis’s candidacy. But the judge also said Mr. Lewis’s residency had not been conclusively proved or disproved.\* “IF” the Democrats appealed and the adm law judge plus the Lt. Governors decision. Either way, Lewis moved to Houston where he is less concerned about the residents of NJ than getting his own name in the press. Which still has nothing to do with the tollbooth debacle. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/447 "2014-01-21T22:41:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If he wasn’t aware of it (and approved, if not ordered, it), then he’s too completely fucking clueless to trust in any position of responsibility, right? That’s my take on it. Presumably, if he wasn’t involved in creating it, he would have asked for an explanation. Upon being faced with the “traffic study” story, he’d either have to be incredibly gullible to buy it, or just not care about his citizens and let it go. At the same time, I find it equally difficult to believe that Christie, a man with serious political ambitions, would risk his dreams on some stupid, pointless prank. My best guess is that he wasn’t technically involved in its creation, but once he found out about it, he was mildly amused by the outcome (troubling Fort Lee) so he looked the other way. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/448 "2014-01-21T22:45:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If he wasn’t aware of it (and approved, if not ordered, it), then he’s too completely fucking clueless to trust in any position of responsibility, right? It’s not like he issued Executive Privilege to keep him and his AG from talking about the governments running guns to Mexico. That would be a real break with the public’s trust. Can you prove any direct involvement between Christie and the tollbooth debacle? Don’t you expect the investigations to uncover the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/449 "2014-01-21T22:48:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > This whole case against Christie is hypothetical. Any day now, I expect someone to actually provide evidence that Christie was actually involved in the tollbooth debacle. Something other than “if”. Don’t get ahead of yourself. I expect it will take weeks or even months for any evidence of Christie’s direct involvement to come to light. Right now people are just being investigated and arrested. It’ll take a while for immunity deals to be negotiated and testimony to be given. And Christie’s lawyers will be able to slow down the process with various legal challenges. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/450 "2014-01-21T23:00:12Z")
You’re really reaching here. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Lewis’s “claims” have no bearing on the tollbooth restrictions. No one has any idea if Lewis’s “claims” are true but somehow they’re supposed to prove that Christie is a bully??? Off topic at best. Christie is being accused of possible involvement in political intimidation. Somebody stepping forward to say Christie used political intimidation against them on a separate unrelated occasion is definitely on-topic. > [@doorhinge](#): > > It appears to me that Lewis asked the Governors Office to create a job for him. That offer was declined. Are aging athletes always guaranteed a government position simply because of who they were? Why should Christie be expected to spend taxpayer dollars to enhance Lewis’s image? It’s an unpaid volunteer position. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Lewis also expected to run for the Senate. It appears that Lewis is still pissed that he couldn’t run just because he wasn’t a resident. It couldn’t be Lewis’s fault so Lewis decided to publically blame someone else and get his name in the news, one more time. You’re the only one saying this. Lewis has never said this. Lewis says Christie is to blame for not giving him the fitness ambassador position. Which is undeniably true - Christie did not give him that position. > [@doorhinge](#): > > The media haven’t found any evidence that Christie was actually involved in the tollbooth restrictions so they run with Lewis’s sourgrapes. At least it fills in any dead air time. So far. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/451 "2014-01-21T23:13:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > From the link provided in post 413. > > \*Carl Lewis’s career in politics may have lasted about as long as one of the Olympic races that made him famous. On Tuesday, the New Jersey lieutenant governor ruled that he had not lived in the state long enough to run for a seat in the State Senate. > > Democrats said they expected to appeal the decision in court. > > …Last week, an administrative law judge dismissed Republicans’ challenge to Mr. Lewis’s candidacy. But the judge also said Mr. Lewis’s residency had not been conclusively proved or disproved.\* > > “IF” the Democrats appealed and the adm law judge plus the Lt. Governors decision. Either way, Lewis moved to Houston where he is less concerned about the residents of NJ than getting his own name in the press. Which still has nothing to do with the tollbooth debacle. There is no “either way”. You are wrong. There were not two court cases. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/452 "2014-01-21T23:44:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …It’s an unpaid volunteer position. I wasn’t aware that the job that wasn’t created would have been an unpaid job. Can I assume that there would also have been no travel expenses or per diem for the job that didn’t exist yet? At least until after the job had actually been created? What a coup for NJ. Carl Lewis - NJ fitness ambassador. Isn’t that how Schwarzenegger got started? As chairman of the President’s Council on Physical Fitness and Sports? And Lewis was born in the U.S… Just think of it, President Carl Lewis. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/453 "2014-01-22T00:08:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > There is no “either way”. You are wrong. There were not two court cases. There was the Republican challenge to allow Lewis to run for the Senate as soon as he did and the Democrat appeal to overturn the Lt Governor’s decision. That makes two. \*A 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel put Lewis, a Democrat, back on the ballot with a 2-1 ruling issued less than five hours after hearing arguments. The court said a full opinion would be filed later. …Since then, state courts and the U.S. District court have sided with her. The 3rd Circuit put Lewis back on the ballot for the primary in June and restored him again Tuesday for the general election on Nov. 8.\* > **[HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News](https://www.huffpost.com/)** > > Read the latest headlines, news stories, and opinion from Politics, Entertainment, Life, Perspectives, and more. And as we know, Lewis was not on the ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/454 "2014-01-22T03:36:09Z")
doorhinge, you keep [del]flogging that dead horse[/del] fighting the good fight. Christie is dead politically. He wasn’t going to get the GOP nom anyway, but now it’s moot. Still, fight the power, my brother! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/455 "2014-01-22T16:28:48Z")
Yes, there is evidence that Christie was involved in the bridge closing. There are e-mails from his top staffers ordering it. He is responsible for the actions of his staffers, and that makes him involved, like it or not. There is not yet conclusive evidence that he knew about it or approved of it, but you can be involved in something without knowing about it or approving of it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/456 "2014-01-22T16:31:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > It’s not like he issued Executive Privilege to keep him and his AG from talking about the governments running guns to Mexico. That would be a real break with the public’s trust. Alright, enough. If you want to defend Christie against all comers, that’s fine. If you want to slow down the discussion, that’s mildly irritating but not really against the rules. I’m not going to allow you to make this an exercise in tedium _and_ try to hijack the thread. Stay on the subject of Christie and New Jersey or start a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/457 "2014-01-23T15:01:55Z")
> **[Hoboken Mayor Is Said to Have Told of Threat (Published 2014)](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/23/nyregion/hoboken-mayor-is-said-to-have-told-of-threat.html?_r=1)** > > Federal authorities have interviewed witnesses who said Dawn Zimmer told them about Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno’s threat to withhold hurricane recovery funds if she did not support a development project. > [@](#): > > Federal authorities in New Jersey have interviewed several witnesses who said the mayor of Hoboken told them in May about a state official’s threat to withhold hurricane recovery funds if the mayor did not support a development project favored by the governor, people briefed on the matter said on Wednesday. > > The statements by the witnesses, two of whom are aides to the mayor, Dawn Zimmer, support the account she gave to federal prosecutors on Sunday, and the interviews suggest that prosecutors and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have moved swiftly to investigate her accusations. It seems unlikely that a number of people would all lie to the FBI about this. I think “bridgegate” may have opened the floodgates. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/458 "2014-01-23T15:24:04Z")
Unless their line of inquiry is because they suspect it never happened, and she’s making shit up. Their procedure and approach would be the same, they would be interviewing witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/459 "2014-01-23T15:37:15Z")
Nobody else was privy to the conversation between the mayor and the lt. governor. I think it’s more like they’re going to interview the mayor’s staff and see if they can verify that she was complaining about being pressured to move the project forward in order to get Sandy aid. If someone can recall her coming back to the office and saying “Can you believe what the lt. governor said to me?” that would be more evidence that said conversation actually occured. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/460 "2014-01-23T16:02:35Z")
The article says that their statements support the mayors account. > [@](#): > > The aides said she had told them about the threat by Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno, shortly after it occurred, according to two people briefed on the matter. Granted, we don’t know who the “two people briefed on the matter” are, but the NYT does have some credibility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=24)