# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/561 "2014-02-13T14:33:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > What was actually happening in Ft. Lee, NJ? People were stuck in traffic. Now why do you think that was? Mere happenstance, apparently. Nothing to do with any lanes being closed, for no immediately apparent reason. You \*know \*this was no ordinary traffic jam. Please. > [@](#): > > You believe that Christie must have known what “they” were doing because he isn’t fucking clueless. That’s pretty slim evidence. Not in the court of public opinion, it isn’t. > [@](#): > > Christie is smart, so he must know everything the Port Authority is doing. Everything? Nobody said that. > [@](#): > > Christie is a big fat guy, so he must be a sumo wrestler. Christie doesn’t stop talking, so he must not delegate authority. > > … Some people would believe Christie stole the Lindbergh baby if MSNBC “reported” such a story. To repeat: Please. The story is Christie, his conduct, his judgment in selecting staff members, his response to constituent issues, and what all that reflects on his qualifications for a position of public trust. It isn’t about MSNBC; please note that all political media other than Fox are reporting the same facts in essentially the same way. Is that a conspiracy, or are they merely doing their jobs? > [@](#): > > Do you think the media or Democrats or investigating committees have proven that Christie is guilty of violating NJ laws?\* > > We both know the answer is “No”. I did answer that, and added that it doesn’t fucking matter, and may well become true at some not-very-distant future. You may not want to accept that, but it’s true. Please note that the Attorney General’s investigations, of this and the Hoboken shakedown incident, are in the early stages, and nothing will be reported until/unless charges are filed. That hardly means there isn’t anything there, right? > [@](#): > > I have no idea if Christie is “done in politics”. Will the voters of NJ reelect Christie? Maybe? Probably? No way? I think you know better. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/562 "2014-02-13T19:36:19Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > …Also, NJ Dems aren’t exactly licking their chops since this sort of low level corruption is endemic in the Garden State. True, the Fort Lee stuff reflects bad judgment by [del]Christie[/del] I mean _somebody_ - but the holding up of Sandi relief aid in Hoboken appeared to be business as usual, if you believe the Christie aide that the Hoboken mayor was speaking to. > > For myself, I think it’s a wonderful thing when an elected crook is caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Even better when they are investigated and given a fair trial. (shortened for clarity) … _if you believe the Christie aide that the Hoboken mayor was speaking to_. I believe you mean, “if you believe what the Hoboken mayor said about what the Christie “aide” (aka Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno) allegedly said to her?” I don’t believe the “Christie aide” has made a statement admitting threatening Mayor Hoboken because Christie demanded she do so. I believe Guadagno has denied the allegation (as if that matters at this point. 😉 ). Unless new evidence has been discovered, this is a she says/she says situation. I have no problem with there being an investigation. I have no problem questioning the investigation(s), either. A “fair trial”, even in the court of public opinion, still requires an opposing view point if it’s to be considered fair. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/563 "2014-02-13T19:43:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (shortened for clarity) > > … _if you believe the Christie aide that the Hoboken mayor was speaking to_. > > I believe you mean, “if you believe what the Hoboken mayor said about what the Christie “aide” (aka Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno) allegedly said to her?” > > I don’t believe the “Christie aide” has made a statement admitting threatening Mayor Hoboken because Christie demanded she do so. I believe Guadagno has denied the allegation (as if that matters at this point. 😉 ). Unless new evidence has been discovered, this is a she says/she says situation. > > I have no problem with there being an investigation. I have no problem questioning the investigation(s), either. A “fair trial”, even in the court of public opinion, still requires an opposing view point if it’s to be considered fair. All of that would be moot if the administration could say, “That mayor’s nuts! Look at all the money that was given to Hoboken for disaster relief.” Given that that hasn’t been said, I believe that the money has been withheld from a city that was hit pretty hard. That’s bad no matter why the money was withheld. Like with the bridge closure, it means that Chris Christie is either corrupt or horribly incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/564 "2014-02-13T19:58:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Now why do you think that was? Mere happenstance, apparently. Nothing to do with any lanes being closed, for no immediately apparent reason. > > You \*know \*this was no ordinary traffic jam. Please. > > …The story is Christie, his conduct, his judgment in selecting staff members, his response to constituent issues, and what all that reflects on his qualifications for a position of public trust. It isn’t about MSNBC; please note that all political media other than Fox are reporting the same facts in essentially the same way. Is that a conspiracy, or are they merely doing their jobs? > > …I think you know better. (shortened for clarity) Hindsight is 20/20. What was known on day one? People were struggling to find out what happened and were responding to the situation as best as they could. The Port Authority knew what (they thought) was happening. Baroni, Wildstein, and Bridget Anne Kelly knew what had happened AND why it was happening. Was anyone else involved? That’s unknown at this point in time. The media outlets are now famous for cut-and-paste reporting. _We didn’t get the story wrong - we only copied it from some other outlet. They’re the one who got it wrong_. I question MSNBC’s coverage/speculation of the Great Lane Reassignment debacle. That doesn’t mean you have to. I’ve given up trying to explain why some politicians get reelected. If the voters want Christie back, Christie gets another term. If not, well, maybe they’ll do a “Sopranos” movie with Christie in the lead role? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/565 "2014-02-13T20:33:06Z")
I think we can enumerate the options Christie ordered it directly, certainly not in writing. Christie made it clear he wanted some payback for those who refused to endorse him, but didn’t specify what. (My guess.) Christie did neither of these things but ran an environment where top aides felt comfortable screwing the people and were sure they would not be called on the carpet for it (assuming no one found out.) Christie is just a poor innocent naive soul, hiring aides who did this against his even tacit will. It’s all a figment of the Democratic imagination and there really was a traffic study which got lost. Not one of these possibilities looks good for him. Have any other possibilities? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/566 "2014-02-13T20:35:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’ve given up trying to explain why some politicians get reelected. If the voters want Christie back, Christie gets another term. If not, well, maybe they’ll do a “Sopranos” movie with Christie in the lead role? Did I miss something? Who is talking about another term? He just won the election before the story broke and there are term limits in NJ. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/567 "2014-02-13T20:42:37Z")
One thing I don’t understand about this whole question is: What was the point of the thing. If that guy who didn’t vote for him (or whatever) didn’t know that Christie was behind it, then what would you get out of doing this? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/568 "2014-02-13T20:51:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Baroni, Wildstein, and Bridget Anne Kelly knew what had happened AND why it was happening. Was anyone else involved? That’s unknown at this point in time. Someone else knew, becuase when Baroni asked what Trenton thought about his performance at the hearing, Wildstein said to Baroni: > [@](#): > > [11f25/13 11:58 David Wildstein: You did great > > [11/25/13 11:59 Bill Baroni (6094687069): Trenton feedback > > [11/25/13 11:59 Bill Baroni (6094687069): > > [11/25/13 11:59 David Wildstein: Good > > [1/25/13 11:59] Bill Bari (609-4687069): Just good? Shit > [11/25/13 12:00 David Wildstein: No have only texted brudget and Nicole they were VERY happy > [11/25/13 12:00 Bill Baroni (6094687069): Oky Thus, by saying “only,” he is certainly indicating that other people were in the loop but he hasn’t received feedback from them yet. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/569 "2014-02-13T21:13:31Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > One thing I don’t understand about this whole question is: What was the point of the thing. If that guy who didn’t vote for him (or whatever) didn’t know that Christie was behind it, then what would you get out of doing this? giggles This is nothing new. Christie from day one has shown a pattern of being unnecessarily vindictive against those that slighted him in some way. Just [one](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/01/christie-an-angry-dictator-toward-the-press.html) other story of many. This bully label did not come out of thin air. I voted for him the first time. I’d vote for Stalin before I ever vote for him again. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/570 "2014-02-13T21:15:20Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Someone else knew, becuase when Baroni asked what Trenton thought about his performance at the hearing, Wildstein said to Baroni: > > Thus, by saying “only,” he is certainly indicating that other people were in the loop but he hasn’t received feedback from them yet. Or he could have meant he had only texted, not called. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/571 "2014-02-13T21:28:09Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hindsight is 20/20. What was known on day one? People were struggling to find out what happened and were responding to the situation as best as they could. How about by day _four_? :dubious: > [@](#): > > I question MSNBC’s coverage/speculation of the Great Lane Reassignment debacle. And for no reason you can point to, its coverage being pretty much the same as everyone else’s other than Fox. > [@](#): > > I’ve given up trying to explain why some politicians get reelected. But that’s what we’re here for in this forum. Try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/572 "2014-02-14T00:29:41Z")
Here is a pretty good over view of Christie’s political career. Nothing in it that rings false to me. His whole anti-corruption outside of the system act is a facade. > **[Chris Christie's Entire Career Reeks](https://newrepublic.com/article/116601/chris-christies-rise-and-fall)** > > The problem with Christie isn’t merely that he is a bully. It’s that his political career is built on a rotten foundation. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/573 "2014-02-14T05:21:19Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Here is a pretty good over view of Christie’s political career. Nothing in it that rings false to me. His whole anti-corruption outside of the system act is a facade. > [Chris Christie's Rise and Fall | The New Republic](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116601/chris-christies-rise-and-fall) It’s a good article, albeit a lengthy one. I’d summarize it with this quote: By taking down some of the state’s bosses while leaving others off-limits, Christie had effectively turned the supposedly apolitical role of prosecutor into that of kingmaker. It was a brilliant strategy. New Jersey offered such a target-rich environment that Christie was able to get credit for taking down a slew of crooked officials and build alliances with some of the most powerful bosses in the state at the same time. When Christie was U.S. attorney for New Jersey, a job he secured despite having essentially no experience with criminal law, he racked up over 130 convictions of corrupt pols. More Democrats than Republicans, but still. He studiously avoided the biggest fish though. Arguably it was a net win for NJ, though it certainly advanced Christie’s career. Ironically, Wildstein was another guy who took on NJ corruption before marinating in it. He used to be the anonymous editor of [politickernj](http://articles.philly.com/2014-02-02/news/46901238_1_lane-closures-david-wildstein-new-jersey-gov). [http://www.politickernj.com/](http://www.politickernj.com/) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/574 "2014-02-14T13:40:55Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Did I miss something? Who is talking about another term? He just won the election before the story broke and there are term limits in NJ. According to the “The Official Web Site for The State of New Jersey” FAQ - \*What is the governor’s term of office? The governor serves a four-year term. The governor may serve any number of terms, but he or she cannot serve more than two terms in a row\*. > **[Frequently Asked Questions | Governor](https://www.nj.gov/faqs/gov/index.html)** > > Frequently Asked Questions - Governor Christie could run for another office or deal with the “two terms in a row” issue the same way that NYC Mayor Bloomberg did. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/575 "2014-02-14T13:50:09Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > All of that would be moot if the administration could say, “That mayor’s nuts! Look at all the money that was given to Hoboken for disaster relief.” Given that that hasn’t been said, I believe that the money has been withheld from a city that was hit pretty hard. That’s bad no matter why the money was withheld. Like with the bridge closure, it means that Chris Christie is either corrupt or horribly incompetent. What “bridge closure”? Two of the three tollbooth lanes normally assigned to Ft Lee entrance traffic were reassigned to the main artery which increased from nine lanes to eleven. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/576 "2014-02-14T13:55:14Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > What “bridge closure”? Two of the three tollbooth lanes normally assigned to Ft Lee entrance traffic were reassigned to the main artery which increased from nine lanes to eleven. Finally something I can agree with. You’re technically correct, but the effect was to resrict traffic coming from Fort Lee by squeezing three lanes of traffic down to one to get to the tollbooths, so the common usage has been to refer to it as lane closures. I see this as a distinction without a difference. I’m personally less offended by this than the use of the term “Bridgegate”. The “gate” suffix has forever burrowed itself into our lexicon, to the point where future generations will think that “Watergate” was a scandal involving water. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/577 "2014-02-14T14:42:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > …And for no reason you can point to, its coverage being pretty much the same as everyone else’s other than Fox. > > But that’s what we’re here for in this forum. Try harder. (shortened for clarity) FYI - If you have six media outlets reporting the exact same story almost verbatim, you don’t have confirmation from six different sources. You have one story being repeated six times. “Everyone is saying it, so it must be true” doesn’t actually make it true. Cut-and-paste journalism at its finest. The court of public opinion/kangaroo court/lynch mob seems to unduly influenced by the currently popular “cut-and-paste journalism” technique. Addressing the stories/speculations that MSNBC actually broke - Steve Kornacki broke the Hudson Lights real estate development alleged/possible extortion story. What was missing from the story were interviews/statements from the seller, the buyer, the financier, or the builder of the actual project. Were they threatened or even concerned with the Great Lane Reassignment debacle? I consider information like that to be important or at least interesting. _“Yes, we were greatly concerned and considered dropping the project”_ or _"No, we were never approached by any political bagmen or media reporters. If we had experienced any pressure, we would have had our people call their people and remind them who put them in office. 'nuff said_." MSNBC’s Maddow has cast doubt on the “Sokolich endorsement of Christie” speculation with speculation of her own. Maddow has suggested that the lane closures were retribution for NJ democrats blocking Helen Hoens appointment to the NJ Supreme Court. The claims against Christie keep building. What hasn’t happened is providing proof of any of these speculations. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/578 "2014-02-14T14:56:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Finally something I can agree with. You’re technically correct, but the effect was to resrict traffic coming from Fort Lee by squeezing three lanes of traffic down to one to get to the tollbooths, so the common usage has been to refer to it as lane closures. I see this as a distinction without a difference. I’m personally less offended by this than the use of the term “Bridgegate”. The “gate” suffix has forever burrowed itself into our lexicon, to the point where future generations will think that “Watergate” was a scandal involving water. We probably agree on a lot of subjects, just not politics. That doesn’t make us evil people. It ain’t personal, it’s business. Leave the gun. Take the cannoli. It’s the “common usage” of many of the claims now associated with the Great Lane Reassignment that annoys me. “Something” did happen. The fastest way to get to the bottom of what actually happened is to prove/disprove each accusation. _‘Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth.’ -Sherlock Holmes (The Sign of Four)_ ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/579 "2014-02-14T15:10:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Now why do you think that was? Mere happenstance, apparently. > > You \*know \*this was no ordinary traffic jam. Please. > > Not in the court of public opinion, it isn’t. > > Everything? **Nobody said that**. > > To repeat: Please. (bold and shortened for clarity) Ahem… I said that. I provided three equally lame examples similar to the “Christie must be guilty because he isn’t fucking clueless” claim. _You believe that Christie must have known what “they” were doing because he isn’t fucking clueless. That’s pretty slim evidence. I’m not ready to jump that shark yet. 1) Christie is smart, so he must know everything the Port Authority is doing. 2) Christie is a big fat guy, so he must be a sumo wrestler. 3) Christie doesn’t stop talking, so he must not delegate authority_. It makes more sense when they’re kept in context. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/580 "2014-02-14T15:57:54Z")
The main problem with the clueless doofus theory is that it would be easy to falsify and nearly impossible to prove. Just one errant e-mail and pop goes the weasel-think. And even if no actual proof exists, we are left with a roaming cloud of suspicion with no resolution. After all, it was _somebody’s_ idea, wasn’t it? We may reasonably expect it was somebody who either had or _thought_ she had the authority to make it happen. We may reasonably surmise that she expected he would approve. But could anyone be so certain that they would borrow the Governor’s authority without advising him? And three days, nobody tells him, he floats about in an innocent cloud of ignorance? Hell, sounds fine to me, no smoking gun, Christie goes forward neither exonerated nor convicted, ready to perform a high dive face plant, hopefully with the Republican nomination in his hand. And shit, there’s always Mitt, tan, rested and ready! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=30)