# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/641 "2014-02-19T15:37:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Who knows, maybe ALL of Christie’s men will fall on their swords and refuse to sing and leave Christie untouched. I don’t know that I’d call “I did all this stuff on my own because the governor is too much of a dumbass to keep tabs on what’s going on” leaves him “untouched”. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/642 "2014-02-19T21:20:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (shortened for clarity) > > It was four days before the non-study study was called off by Foye. > > It still took Sokolich’s office 4 days to figure out who to call in order to get results. > > (_Oh my. I called Baroni’s office several times and he won’t call me back. What am I, the mayor a NJ city, supposed to do next_?) I would think that with the interagency and intergovernmental exercises conduct since 9-11, that a mayor, or mayor’s office, would know who to call in order to get things done quickly. If this were a major calamity, instead of a traffic jam, the voters would be calling for Sokolich’s head. They still might. Someone else might have covered this, but if there had been a major calamity the PA probably would have responded. How was he to know exactly that the NJ PA was doing it deliberately? And if he had called the governor’s office no doubt he’d have gotten the very aides who started it. Don’t blame the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/643 "2014-02-19T21:23:17Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “Top of what”? The Port Authority? Are you saying Foye was involved in the Great Lane Reassignment, also? Do you think Foye was above Wildstein? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/644 "2014-02-19T21:25:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Under any scrutiny, the circumstantial evidence doesn’t seem very, well…, substantial. > > I’m sure that the 8 democrats and 4 republicans on the bipartisan investigating committee will find Christie guilty of something. If there were 8 republicans and four democrats I’m sure they’d find it was all Foye’s fault. Anyhow, so much for Christie the bipartisan leader. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/645 "2014-02-19T21:30:09Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I have no idea. > > I have no idea. Someone thought they could get away with this. > > The Great Lane Reassignment scam would have to have been discussed/planned prior to it’s implementation. There has been no evidence presented, so far, that Christie was involved. Rumors? Yes. Speculation? Yes. Evidence? No. I wasn’t asking for hard evidence. We’ll see what the investigation digs up. I was asking for your opinion. Which seems to be that you have no idea whether Christie is an incompetent boob or not. But he’s still worth defending. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/646 "2014-02-19T22:27:00Z")
So, you work there on the bridge, and you get an order to shut down lanes signed by David Wildstein, Director of Interstate Capital Projects. Who has no job description and no delineated authority. Dollars to dog nuts, you never heard of the guy before. Good bet you have no idea what interstate capital projects are. Why would you obey? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/647 "2014-02-20T16:01:27Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Someone else might have covered this, but if there had been a major calamity the PA probably would have responded. How was he to know exactly that the NJ PA was doing it deliberately? And if he had called the governor’s office no doubt he’d have gotten the very aides who started it. > Don’t blame the victim. The “victims” were the people caught up in the traffic jam. The “victims” called the mayor’s office and the mayor proved ineffective at resolving the issue. Luckily for the “victims”, Foye eventually became aware of the traffic jam and ordered an end to the non-study study. At least somebody knows how to get things done. > [@Voyager](#): > > If there were 8 republicans and four democrats I’m sure they’d find it was all Foye’s fault. > Anyhow, so much for Christie the bipartisan leader. If things were different, things would be different. Unless you’re attempting to justify stacking the political deck in favor of your opinion as opposed to uncovering the facts? > [@Voyager](#): > > I wasn’t asking for hard evidence. We’ll see what the investigation digs up. I was asking for your opinion. Which seems to be that you have no idea whether Christie is an incompetent boob or not. But he’s still worth defending. So far, it appears that Wildstein was the brains behind the Great Lane Reassignment debacle. Baroni helped with the planning and attempted coverup. Bridget Anne Kelly’s part in this isn’t clear. It’s possible that she may just have been a stooge expected to tell Wildstein when the time was right for Wildstein’s plan to go into effect. Or not. Foye rode to the rescue by ordering that the traffic lanes to be returned to normal. There doesn’t seem to be any indication that it was Sokolich (the mayor who can’t fix things) who had notified Foye (the Port Authority person who can fix things) that Ft Lee had a traffic jam and needed Port Authority help. Wildstein even showed up to personally oversee the “moving of the traffic cones”. \*An appointee of Gov. Chris Christie personally showed up to observe the closure of lanes at the George Washington Bridge that triggered an epic traffic jam in New Jersey in September, according to documents made public Friday. The appointee, David Wildstein, emailed the general manager of the bridge on the day before the lanes were closed to say, “Will be at bridge early Monday am to view new lane test,” the documents show. Other emails show that he arrived by 7 a.m. on Sept. 9, the first of four days of nightmare traffic in the city of Fort Lee\*. > **[U.S. News: Latest Breaking Stories, Video, and Photos on American Politics,...](https://www.nbcnews.com/us-news)** > > Get the latest news headlines and top stories from NBCNews.com. Find videos and news articles on the latest stories in the US. There are lots-o-documents that do not point to Christie’s involvement. \*‘Bridge-Gate’ documents released; emails paint picture of Port Authority complacency Originally published: January 10, 2014 6:10 AM Updated: January 11, 2014 1:34 PM EDISON - The state legislative committee holding hearings on the now infamous George Washington Bridge traffic jam released a little more than 900 pages of documents related to the incident. …News 12 New Jersey has not uncovered a mention of Christie or his office in the early days surrounding the bridge closure. Christie adamantly denied any personal “knowledge or involvement” in the incident.\* [http://newjersey.news12.com/news/bridge-gate-documents-released-emails-paint-picture-of-port-authority-complacency-1.6770526](http://newjersey.news12.com/news/bridge-gate-documents-released-emails-paint-picture-of-port-authority-complacency-1.6770526) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/648 "2014-02-20T16:11:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, you work there on the bridge, and you get an order to shut down lanes signed by David Wildstein, Director of Interstate Capital Projects. Who has no job description and no delineated authority. Dollars to dog nuts, you never heard of the guy before. Good bet you have no idea what interstate capital projects are. > > Why would you obey? Chain of command. Wildstein told the general manager of the bridge to move the cones. The general manager of the bridge would have ordered the crew leader(s) to move the cones. The crew leaders would have ordered the worker bees to move the cones. Which one of these Port Authority employees would chose to be fired for not moving the cones? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/649 "2014-02-20T16:15:08Z")
I think you’re being too hard on the mayor. The governor’s office and the NJ contacts on the Port Authority were told to stonewall any inquiries from the mayor’s office. It’s like they kneecapped him and somehow he’s to blame for being “ineffective”. I don’t know if Wildstein was the brains behind the conspiracy. It is clear that he knew precisely what was meant by Bridget Kelly’s “time for some traffic problems” email. I think it’s quite likely that this was planned in the governor’s office with the tacit approval if not active participation by Christie. Surely when Wildstein starts to sing, there will be a whole chorus of his song dedicated to Christie’s role. The reason the documents aren’t incriminating Christie is that he’s smart enough not to leave an electronic trail. What’s in documents doesn’t mean shit, it’s what the participants wind up telling the US Attorney that will seal Christie’s fate. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/650 "2014-02-20T17:21:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think you’re being too hard on the mayor. The governor’s office and the NJ contacts on the Port Authority were told to stonewall any inquiries from the mayor’s office. It’s like they kneecapped him and somehow he’s to blame for being “ineffective”. > > I don’t know if Wildstein was the brains behind the conspiracy. It is clear that he knew precisely what was meant by Bridget Kelly’s “time for some traffic problems” email. I think it’s quite likely that this was planned in the governor’s office with the tacit approval if not active participation by Christie. Surely when Wildstein starts to sing, there will be a whole chorus of his song dedicated to Christie’s role. > The reason the documents aren’t incriminating Christie is that he’s smart enough not to leave an electronic trail. What’s in documents doesn’t mean shit, it’s what the participants wind up telling the US Attorney that will seal Christie’s fate. Sokolich can run for reelection as the mayor who was picked on by the Port Authority or maybe as the mayor who was picked on by the governor, if that’s ever proven. Sokolich’s opponent could run as the guy who would have actually fixed the problem and not waited four days for someone else to straighten things out. What’s also in the “documents that doesn’t mean shit” is what the participants have been telling the U.S. Attorney. Subpoenaed testimony given under oath with the threat of contempt of court (or whatever’s appropriate) charges hanging over their heads. So far, this looks like a Port Authority creation and Wildstein as it’s architect. Kelly looks like your best chance of tying Christie to the Great Lane Reassignment debacle. If that’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/651 "2014-02-20T17:32:46Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Kelly looks like your best chance of tying Christie to the Great Lane Reassignment debacle. If that’s possible. Which of course means the best outcome for Christie is that he was blissfully unaware of the misdeeds going on in his own office, by people who were in offices in very close proximity to his own. If you think that bodes will for Christie, I’ve got a bridge over the Hudson River to sell you. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/652 "2014-02-20T18:46:36Z")
No thanks. I hear it’s a real pain in the ass to get onto. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/653 "2014-02-20T18:49:12Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > … The reason the documents aren’t incriminating Christie is that he’s smart enough not to leave an electronic trail. … The thing is, it’s not just about Christie’s smarts. Because it seems his staff and pals, while not the brightest bulbs on the strings themselves, didn’t copy him on many of their more incriminating emails they were sending to each other. But I do have to wonder why they sent all this shit to each other, apparently believing in their own safety and security, but seemingly _didn’t_ brag to their boss about it in the process? Personally, I think that Christie must run some kind of new employee orientation program called “What I don’t need to officially know”. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/654 "2014-02-20T18:54:47Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Personally, I think that Christie must run some kind of new employee orientation program called “What I don’t need to officially know”. But I think that lesson will be unlearned as the US Attorney teaches a new course “Public officials that I’m not willing to go to prison to protect”. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/655 "2014-02-20T19:08:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Which of course means the best outcome for Christie is that he was blissfully unaware of the misdeeds going on in his own office, by people who were in offices in very close proximity to his own. If you think that bodes will for Christie, I’ve got a bridge over the Hudson River to sell you. Is it a nice bridge? Good view? Low mileage? How many of the known major players actually worked in Christie’s office? Bridget Kelly. The Port Authority people ordered that the cones be move and they moved the cones. The Port Authority people tried to cover it up. I’m still waiting for proof that Christie was involved. Others seem to have already convicted Christie based on little or no evidence and ridicule any attempt he makes to defend himself. Life goes on. Christie is a big boy. He knows that politics ain’t tiddly-winks (a child’s game that’s easy to play). If Christie is guilty, he’s guilty. If Christie is not-guilty, he’s still guilty because he’s fat/republican/went to high school in NJ/his popularity/had good media coverage/might run against Hillary/had some kind of weight-loss surgery/(insert other reason here). I’ll still wait for proof of Christie’s involvement. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/656 "2014-02-20T19:15:47Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’ll still wait for proof of Christie’s involvement. Fair enough. It will come. Don’t forget that the US Attorney doesn’t work to feed the 24 hour news cycles. Unlike his predecessor, he seems to be interested in serving the public interest and not getting his name in the paper every day. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/657 "2014-02-20T19:22:18Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > No thanks. I hear it’s a real pain in the ass to get onto. You’re thinking of a gray stone hotel \*up \*the Hudson, not a steel bridge \*over \*it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/658 "2014-02-20T19:59:15Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The “victims” were the people caught up in the traffic jam. The “victims” called the mayor’s office and the mayor proved ineffective at resolving the issue. Luckily for the “victims”, Foye eventually became aware of the traffic jam and ordered an end to the non-study study. At least somebody knows how to get things done. The split of authority between NJ and NY has already been pointed out to you. The Fort Lee incident happened in NJ. It did not even tie up traffic on the NY side of the bridge. NYers returning home were affected, but that is about it. It is easy to say he should have called Foye now that we know the NJ PA execs and the governor’s office were a bunch of corrupt scum. It was not obvious back then. Say your lights go out and you call the power company, and get assurances that something will be done soon but nothing happens. Say the reason was that someone in the power company hates you. Are you to blame for not going to the papers or the regulatory commission right away? I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > So far, it appears that Wildstein was the brains behind the Great Lane Reassignment debacle. Baroni helped with the planning and attempted coverup. Bridget Anne Kelly’s part in this isn’t clear. It’s possible that she may just have been a stooge expected to tell Wildstein when the time was right for Wildstein’s plan to go into effect. Or not. Foye rode to the rescue by ordering that the traffic lanes to be returned to normal. There doesn’t seem to be any indication that it was Sokolich (the mayor who can’t fix things) who had notified Foye (the Port Authority person who can fix things) that Ft Lee had a traffic jam and needed Port Authority help. > > Wildstein even showed up to personally oversee the “moving of the traffic cones”. Why would Wildstein initiate the blockage? What did Fort Lee do to him? The people with a motive for revenge were in the governor’s office, including the governor. That Wildstein gave the command is clear. He committed the hit, he didn’t necessarily order the hit. > [@](#): > > There are lots-o-documents that do not point to Christie’s involvement. There were Watergate documents that did not point to Nixon’s involvement also. Notice that the players are fighting turning over their documents to the investigation. There is enough in the released ones to indict them already. Why resist? Perhaps because the point to others, including the governor? He might have been smart enough to keep them from writing it down - in which case we’ll need someone to rat him out. Unless he had a tape recorder in his office, and an incompetent secretary. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/659 "2014-02-20T20:02:59Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The thing is, it’s not just about Christie’s smarts. Because it seems his staff and pals, while not the brightest bulbs on the strings themselves, didn’t copy him on many of their more incriminating emails they were sending to each other. But I do have to wonder why they sent all this shit to each other, apparently believing in their own safety and security, but seemingly _didn’t_ brag to their boss about it in the process? > > Personally, I think that Christie must run some kind of new employee orientation program called “What I don’t need to officially know”. I’ve noticed that many lawyers and politicians don’t really get email. I don’t think they have a clue about mail servers and backups. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/660 "2014-02-20T20:06:11Z")
Perhaps he’s eaten his monitor! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=34)