# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/681 "2014-02-21T20:28:55Z")
An old-time Boston pol named Martin Lomasney was famous for saying “Never write if you can speak; never speak if you can nod; never nod if you can wink.” I’m pretty sure Christie understands that too. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/682 "2014-02-21T20:31:36Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m going with maliciously incompetent. > > Or maybe blunderingly malicious. Malicious? Definitely. Incompetent? They very competently made the life of Fort Lee residents miserable. Incompetent in that they got caught, yes. But Christie hasn’t gotten caught - yet. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/683 "2014-02-21T20:46:36Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > “Can I ask you what media outlet told you Christie is blundering and incompetent without offer you actual proof that Christie was involved in the Great Lane Reassignment?” > Even if he literally knew nothing about it, these were his staffers, and he picked them to accomplish their various duties. If his staff, whom he handpicked, were that incompetent/malicious/whatever, it directly reflects Christie’s _incompetence_ pretty much by definition. “Governor, one of your lesser responsibilities will be to not needlessly fuck up the traffic in your state. Do you think your administration can handle that?” > I mean, really, would you give that kind of a blanket pass to any administration regardless of political affiliation? We’ve been going around that merry go around for perhaps 4 pages now, and it still hasn’t sunk in. It’s pretty clear now that, even on the best interpretation, Christie needs to be kept as far from the Oval Office as possible. No, there’s no hard evidence that he’s committed crimes: _that’s why we have criminal investigations_. But typically, when three of your appointees, one of them your deputy chief of staff, are colluding in a corrupt manner it indicates some encouragement of the same at the top. Typically. But there are piss-poor managers as well, which is why we have criminal procedures for these sorts of things. Christie could just be a really bad manager and was oblivious to the goings on immediately below him. Doorhinge’s attempts to channel blame to the mayor of Fort Lee or just ask questions about conspiracies with international shipping agents (for a local bridge tie-up) are sad-face. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/684 "2014-02-21T22:17:28Z")
Why would anyone obey an order from Some Guy who is the Director of Capital Something or Other, unless they believed that it was an order from somebody who has an actual job with actual responsibilities? How come nobody said “Who the fuck is David Wildstein, and why can he tell me what to do?”. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/685 "2014-02-21T22:24:37Z")
This may be of interested to those posting in this thread - [The Christie Tracker | WNYC](http://project.wnyc.org/christie/) - news that is All Christie, All the time. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/686 "2014-02-22T01:37:06Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Can I ask you what media outlet told you Christie is blundering and incompetent without offer you actual proof that Christie was involved in the Great Lane Reassignment? No media outlet “told” me that. My eyes and ears told me, after seeing his ridiculous explanations and following the news in general, on TV, in print and online. Your trivialization of the certainly illegal, corrupt and dangerous political sabotage of Fort Lee by calling it the “Great Lane Reassignment” is quite telling. I’m perfectly content to let the investigations run their course before saying Christie was involved, though I think it’s highly likely he was, at least indirectly. I will not wait to pass judgement that he’s an incompetent partisan bully however and I’m very, very glad that his presidential aspirations are toast. If NJ keeps him around in any political capacity they deserve what they get. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/687 "2014-02-22T15:37:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why would anyone obey an order from Some Guy who is the Director of Capital Something or Other Because he’s Management and you’re Labor, and if you defy the order you get into a shitstorm that means you’ll have to go get a real job. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/688 "2014-02-23T02:52:17Z")
> [@](#): > > This seems to be a debate. Christie is the head of the executive branch and what happens on his watch is his responsibility but there is no actual proof that Christie is the mastermind behind the Great Lane Reassignment debacle. Yes, there’s still a debate as to whether Christie is the mastermind behind the debacle. But being the mastermind is not the same thing as being involved. There is a slim chance that he was not the mastermind. However, there is no chance whatsoever that he is not involved. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/689 "2014-02-23T06:49:07Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > “Governor, one of your lesser responsibilities will be to not needlessly fuck up the traffic in your state. Do you think your administration can handle that?” He failed on that one when he canceled the Hudson River train tunnel and [diverted the money into the state highway fund](http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-chris-christie-20140109,0,4800318.story#axzz2u7oZhpVd). That tunnel is desperately needed, and he wasted six hundred million dollars that have already been spent on the project for his own short-term political gain. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/690 "2014-02-24T15:03:18Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > It’s not about whether he was qualified or not. It’s about his claim that he was threatened with the loss of his program if he ran. Whether he was qualified or not, such threats are unethical. Surely you can see that? What’s the name of this program that Lewis was going to lose? What is the brick and morter address? Lewis asked Christie for a job with a title. Christie refused. It looks more like Lewis jumped on the “let’s get Christie” train to get even. Unless you know that such a program existed. I only found references that Lewis wanted to start a program. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/691 "2014-02-24T15:15:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, there’s still a debate as to whether Christie is the mastermind behind the debacle. But being the mastermind is not the same thing as being involved. There is a slim chance that he was not the mastermind. However, there is no chance whatsoever that he is not involved. And you’re basing that on the months spent investigating the Great Lane Reassignment which hasn’t produced any such evidence? The political investigations that haven’t produced any such evidence? The FBI investigation that hasn’t produced any such evidence? Or the MSNBC-style rumor mongering that doesn’t need such proof? You believe Christie is guilty. I want to see actual proof. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/692 "2014-02-24T15:18:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, there’s still a debate as to whether Christie is the mastermind behind the debacle. But being the mastermind is not the same thing as being involved. There is a slim chance that he was not the mastermind. However, there is no chance whatsoever that he is not involved. > [@doorhinge](#): > > And you’re basing that on the months spent investigating the Great Lane Reassignment which hasn’t produced any such evidence? The political investigations that haven’t produced any such evidence? The FBI investigation that hasn’t produced any such evidence? Or the MSNBC-style rumor mongering that doesn’t need such proof? > > You believe Christie is guilty. I want to see actual proof. Not to speak for **Chronos** , but it looks to me like the key here is the definition of “involved.” One might argue that because his staffers undertook these actions, he is _per se_ “involved,” even if he knew nothing about it. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/693 "2014-02-24T15:35:41Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > No media outlet “told” me that. My eyes and ears told me, after seeing his ridiculous explanations and following the news in general, on TV, in print and online. Your trivialization of the certainly illegal, corrupt and dangerous political sabotage of Fort Lee by calling it the “Great Lane Reassignment” is quite telling. > > I’m perfectly content to let the investigations run their course before saying Christie was involved, though I think it’s highly likely he was, at least indirectly. I will not wait to pass judgement that he’s an incompetent partisan bully however and I’m very, very glad that his presidential aspirations are toast. If NJ keeps him around in any political capacity they deserve what they get. I’m curious as to how your “eyes and ears” told you anything that didn’t originally come from a media outlet? I’m flexable. Would you prefer a term other than the Great Lane Reassignment debacle? I noticed several people referring to this as the “GWB something or other”. I would think that would be confusing with the other GWB. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/694 "2014-02-24T15:51:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’m curious as to how your “eyes and ears” told you anything that didn’t originally come from a media outlet? You asked “what media outlet told you…”. The awkward phrasing implies a singular source. As I said, I read and heard multiple sources. > [@](#): > > I’m flexable. Would you prefer a term other than the Great Lane Reassignment debacle? GWB Scandal works. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/695 "2014-02-24T15:59:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not to speak for **Chronos** , but it looks to me like the key here is the definition of “involved.” One might argue that because his staffers undertook these actions, he is _per se_ “involved,” even if he knew nothing about it. Christie has already acknowledged that this happened under his watch and he’s ultimately responsible. Is every Executive Branch leader held to the same standards? Should every Executive Branch leader resign whenever anyone in their administration commits an illegal or immoral act? That would be a great way to remove politician we don’t like. Hire someone to get hired by the current admin. Arrange for them to get caught committing an illegal act. And the incumbent resigns. Every top dog holding an executive branch position is “ultimately” responsible for the actions of his/her administration. On the other hand, it’s already obvious that Wildstein and Baroni are actually up to their ears in this. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/696 "2014-02-24T16:05:04Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > You asked “what media outlet told you…”. The awkward phrasing implies a singular source. As I said, I read and heard multiple sources. > > GWB Scandal works. The “George Walker Bush scandal” doesn’t work for me. The entrance lanes from Ft Lee were reassigned. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/697 "2014-02-24T16:08:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The “George Walker Bush scandal” doesn’t work for me. :smack: > [@](#): > > The entrance lanes from Ft Lee were reassigned. Gee, thanks. I didn’t know that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/698 "2014-02-24T20:24:09Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Christie has already acknowledged that this happened under his watch and he’s ultimately responsible. > > Is every Executive Branch leader held to the same standards? Should every Executive Branch leader resign whenever anyone in their administration commits an illegal or immoral act? That would be a great way to remove politician we don’t like. Hire someone to get hired by the current admin. Arrange for them to get caught committing an illegal act. And the incumbent resigns. > > Every top dog holding an executive branch position is “ultimately” responsible for the actions of his/her administration. On the other hand, it’s already obvious that Wildstein and Baroni are actually up to their ears in this. Most scandals involve someone doing something immoral or illegal for their own gain. Bribery, kickbacks, campaign donations, sex. In this one the people involved had nothing directly to gain from getting the mayor of Fort Lee to endorse Christie. I can think of one other scandal where the players didn’t gain anything personally - Watergate. Who else was involved in that one? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/699 "2014-02-24T21:10:06Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > It looks more like Lewis jumped on the “let’s get Christie” train to get even. Unless you know that such a program existed. I only found references that Lewis wanted to start a program. Now, now. I really think we should wait for all the facts to come in before leveling an accusation such as that. Don’t you hate it when people jump to conclusions? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/700 "2014-02-25T01:27:37Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Is every Executive Branch leader held to the same standards? Should every Executive Branch leader resign whenever anyone in their administration commits an illegal or immoral act? Are you implying a Chief of Staff is just ‘anyone’ in an administration? Come on, this is not a high school debate club or a political campaign. Show a little respect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=36)