# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/781 "2014-03-01T02:56:36Z")
Doorhinge, there is absolutely nothing honest (intellectually or otherwise), rational, or sincere about your arguments in this thread. It makes no sense to engage you. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/782 "2014-03-01T03:02:16Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Okay, I did not find the complete history of Sokolich’s attempts to get the lanes re-opened to Fort Lee traffic. I’ve seen the issue touched on, but not a thorough review of Sokolich actions. Where is that? Probably in Sokolich’s office. Sokolich was made aware of the traffic jam on Monday. Sokolich made a couple of phone calls to the Port Authority. Sokolich said they didn’t call him back. Sokolich’s efforts after that must not have been interesting enough for the media to report on. Sokolich’s efforts didn’t stop the traffic jam. When Port Authority Foye became aware of the traffic jam on Thursday, he ordered the situation reversed and it was. It surprising what can be accomplished if you keep trying. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/783 "2014-03-01T03:38:27Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Doorhinge, there is absolutely nothing honest (intellectually or otherwise), rational, or sincere about your arguments in this thread. It makes no sense to engage you. There’s no solid proof of that. We don’t have affidavits by people he knows, nor has doorhinge been subjected to cross-examination. We don’t even know whether he’s actually posting those messages, or whether they are being issued by someone with the same username. Has it occurred to you that _someone else_ might be providing his commentary? Me neither. Just asking questions. Of course the preponderance of the evidence posts in a single direction, as does posting history, modern conservative cognitive patterns, and the hard experience of how such things play out online. But proof beyond a reasonable doubt? Well perhaps actually, but not beyond an _unreasonable_ doubt. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/784 "2014-03-01T04:31:06Z")
If I’m remembering correctly, Wildstein was described as kinda pissed off that Foye stepped in and intervened. This leads me to suspect that Wildstein actually _expected_ his “radio silence” gambit to be successful for a longer period of time than it actually was. If so, did Wildstein form this expectation in a vacuum? Or would it be more likely that the expectation was justified because standard protocols call for municipal officials in New Jersey to liaise, for preference, with New Jersey PA officials, and leave the New York PA officials alone to handle calls from New York? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/785 "2014-03-01T13:25:19Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > \*\*Probably in Sokolich’s office. \*\*Sokolich was made aware of the traffic jam on Monday. Sokolich made a couple of phone calls to the Port Authority. Sokolich said they didn’t call him back. Sokolich’s efforts after that must not have been interesting enough for the media to report on. Sokolich’s efforts didn’t stop the traffic jam. > > When Port Authority Foye became aware of the traffic jam on Thursday, he ordered the situation reversed and it was. It surprising what can be accomplished if you keep trying. No, that’s not an acceptable answer. You have made several statements denigrating Sokolich’s efforts to address an problem on the interstate. I am asking you what evidence \*\*you \*\*are basing these statements on. You have throughout the thread implied that media reports are unbiased and unreliable, and instead proposed the \*\*absence of media reports \*\*as evidence? That would be laughable even in polite society. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Doorhinge, there is absolutely nothing honest (intellectually or otherwise), rational, or sincere about your arguments in this thread. It makes no sense to engage you. Yeah … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/786 "2014-03-01T15:06:17Z")
Like second marriages, the triumph of hope over experience. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/787 "2014-03-01T16:15:37Z")
> [@j666](#): > > No, that’s not an acceptable answer. You have made several statements denigrating Sokolich’s efforts to address an problem on the interstate. I am asking you what evidence **you** are basing these statements on. ((shouting removed) and post shortened for clarity) I’m basing it on the actual results. Sokolich took 4 days to produce zero results. His excuse? They wouldn’t call me back. That’s not an acceptable answer to me. It took Port Authority Foye a couple of hours to identify and understand this was a Port Authority problem and order the non-study study stopped. Foye 1 - Sokolich 0 ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/788 "2014-03-01T17:32:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > ((shouting removed) and post shortened for clarity) > > I’m basing it on the actual results. Sokolich took 4 days to produce zero results. His excuse? They wouldn’t call me back. That’s not an acceptable answer to me. It took Port Authority Foye a couple of hours to identify and understand this was a Port Authority problem and order the non-study study stopped. > > Foye 1 - Sokolich 0 “It surprising what can be accomplished if you keep trying.” should read as “it is surprising what you can accomplish if you are higher up the _actual chain of command_”. Apparently ‘radio silence’ was not considered an option when the phone rang and Foye was on the other end of the line. _Duh!_ ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/789 "2014-03-01T18:11:14Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’m unaware of any bridge scandal that Christie ordered. It’s a scandal that happened last September when Christie ordered his people to do a fake traffic study so lanes would be shut down and screw up the traffic of some city of there. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/790 "2014-03-01T18:26:02Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > ((shouting removed) and post shortened for clarity) > > I’m basing it on the actual results. Sokolich took 4 days to produce zero results. His excuse? They wouldn’t call me back. That’s not an acceptable answer to me. It took Port Authority Foye a couple of hours to identify and understand this was a Port Authority problem and order the non-study study stopped. > > Foye 1 - Sokolich 0 But you cannot even suggest what he could have done. You do not know what he has the authority to do. You do not what he did. And you did not shorten my post for clarity, you delete a very germane point. If you will not accept a news report as reliable evidence, how can you present the absence of a news report of evidence? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/791 "2014-03-01T23:35:07Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > It’s a scandal that happened last September when Christie ordered his people to do a fake traffic study so lanes would be shut down and screw up the traffic of some city of there. It appears that we have different standards. You believe that Christie is guilty and I want to see proof. If you have proof that Christie ordered his people to do a fake traffic study, I’d like to see it. So would the various organizations investigating the fake traffic study. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/792 "2014-03-01T23:40:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If you have proof that Christie ordered his people to do a fake traffic study, I’d like to see it. So would the various organizations investigating the fake traffic study. Are you thinking that it was a real traffic study and not a fake one? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/793 "2014-03-02T00:03:49Z")
> [@j666](#): > > But you cannot even suggest what he could have done. You do not know what he has the authority to do. You do not what he did. > > And you did not shorten my post for clarity, you delete a very germane point. If you will not accept a news report as reliable evidence, how can you present the absence of a news > report of evidence? I didn’t present the absence of a news report as evidence. It’s the news reports that say Sokolich called Port Authority Baroni/Wildstein. It’s the news reports that say Sokolich complained about the Port Authority not calling him back. Based on the results of his action/inaction, I know what Sokolich couldn’t do. He couldn’t get the traffic jam problem fixed. Somebody else had to do that. Sorry voters of Ft Lee. Better luck next election. What additional authority does a mayor need to fix the problems in his city? The voters elected him to be a leader. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/794 "2014-03-02T00:17:43Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Are you thinking that it was a real traffic study and not a fake one? There is evidence that this was a fake traffic study. There is evidence that Wildstein, Baroni, and Kelly were involved with the fake traffic study. There has been no evidence present, yet, that Christie was involved with the fake traffic study. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/795 "2014-03-02T00:23:28Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > There is evidence that this was a fake traffic study. There is evidence that Wildstein, Baroni, and Kelly were involved with the fake traffic study. There has been no evidence present, yet, that Christie was involved with the fake traffic study. According to Wildstein’s lawyer there is evidence. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/796 "2014-03-02T00:51:34Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > According to Wildstein’s lawyer there is evidence. According to Port Authority Wildstein’s lawyer, Wildstein would present evidence of evidence “IF” the Port Authority agrees to pay for Wildstein’s legal fees. I can wait for the actual evidence to be produced in public. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/797 "2014-03-02T01:21:00Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > From [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/16/politics/christie-wildstein-port-authority/) > > The Newark Star Ledger reported in February 2012 that critics accused Christie of turning the Port Authority into a patronage mill. Citing a document titled “NY/NJ Executive Referrals” the newspaper showed there were 35 new Port Authority hires directed by Christie during his first year in office. That’s more than the last four governors combined, according to the paper. As part of a pattern, this is pretty damning. On its own though it doesn’t mean so much without more context. How many of the 35 were to fill vacant positions? How many were created? I see it mentioned this is more than the previous four Govenors? How many were “directed” and how many were a simple introduction? Were people really told to “create a position”? Not trying to defend it - but this sort of statistic needs a lot of context… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/798 "2014-03-02T01:53:01Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > None that I’m aware of. I would expect the mayor of my city to keep fighting for us. **Sokolich gave up because a couple of Port Authority employees wouldn’t return his call**. _Oh my, what am I going to do? Nobody told me this job was going to be so gosh darn difficult._ In my opinion, Sokolich is a quitter. The voters gave him the ball and Sokolich dropped it. Cite for the bolded claim? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/799 "2014-03-02T03:15:16Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > As part of a pattern, this is pretty damning. > > On its own though it doesn’t mean so much without more context. > How many of the 35 were to fill vacant positions? How many were created? I see it mentioned this is more than the previous four Govenors? > > How many were “directed” and how many were a simple introduction? Were people really told to “create a position”? > > Not trying to defend it - but this sort of statistic needs a lot of context… The article linked to by the CNN article says > [@](#): > > While documents indicate Gov. Chris Christie has directed more new hires than any governor from either state in more than a decade, one of Christie’s appointees said the hires are necessary to carry out the governor’s pledge to reform the bi-state agency. New hires imply new positions. If they are supposed to implement reform, as Christie claims, they are clearly not backfilling current positions. If they were, they should be professional hires not political hires. Remember how Bush turned the professional head of FEMA into a political appointment? At least Brownie didn’t cause the hurricane. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/800 "2014-03-02T03:24:54Z")
No one here is going to be playing football with you any time soon. > [@doorhinge](#): > > **I didn’t present the absence of a news report as evidence.** See below. > [@doorhinge](#): > > … **Sokolich’s efforts after that must not have been interesting enough for the media to report on.** > [@doorhinge](#): > > What additional authority does a mayor need to fix the problems in his city? The voters elected him to be a leader. Well, let’s see. Maybe a law, or a regulation, or at least a standard operating procedure? “Leader” is a nice, flashy word, but it doesn’t mean jack if you don’t have any authority. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite for the bolded claim? Good luck with that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=41)