# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/861 "2014-03-06T15:28:42Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > In advertising, this isn’t the whole truth. > > For a start - the lowest bid may not have been the best, and advertising should not neccessarily go to the lowest bidder (but let’s not debate that here) > > More at issue, is to have Christie star in the ads - if you don’t realise how this helps him, and how money could have been “legitimately” channeled to him because of this, then you are being willfully stupid. > > If they chose the agency based on Christie being used, or “forced” the agency to use Christie - it is absolutely corruption in my mind I question how much truth there is in most advertising. As I understand the process, an organization decides what criteria the commercial/advertising must meet. Multiple bids are accepted for consideration. Bids that do not meet the criteria are rejected and the lowest bidder, that meets the criteria, wins. There is a paper/email/twitter trail of communications between the parties involved. Unlike some rogue Port Authority wildman reassigning lanes because he wanted to prove how tough or influential he was. It should be much easier to prove Christie’s involvement/non-involvement in the TV commercials approval. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/862 "2014-03-06T15:31:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, there is hard, absolute evidence that he was involved. What there is not yet evidence of is that he was the direct instigator, but even absent that, he was involved by virtue of it being his staffers and appointees who did it. You need to get your evidence to the federal investigators ASAP. They’re still looking for “hard, absolute evidence” that Christie was actually involved. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/863 "2014-03-06T15:47:28Z")
No, they already have that, too, just like everyone else in the country. What they’re looking for is not evidence of involvement, but evidence of criminal activity. Which I admit that I do not have: The evidence is still also consistent with mere incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/864 "2014-03-06T15:57:33Z")
> [@j666](#): > > (shortened for brevity) > > **doorhinge** , **you** brought up the issue of the effectiveness of Sokolich’s actions. While others may agree, don’t you think it a bit shameless of you **to just call it “not relevant” now**? > > Do you acknowledge that comparing a mayor of a town of 36,000 people to the governor of a state with 14 electoral votes - 11th highest - is, how shall I say, misleading? Perhaps, dare I say, spurious? (bolding added) Ahem… _Quote: Originally Posted by Chronos Wait, doorhinge, how is it relevant that you have no authority in New Jersey?_ I responded that it was not relevant - that I have no authority in NJ. There was a 4-day traffic jam in Ft Lee, NJ. The residents and commuters called the Mayor’s office, dare I say, demanding that Sokolich DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE TRAFFIC. It would have been obvious that the lane reassignments were a result of a Port Authority action. As Mayor, the most obvious choice of action would be to contact the Port Authority demanding an explanation and a reversal of the lane reassignments. AND keep calling until he reached a person in authority who could correct the situation. Four days later, Port Authority Foye was informed, not by Sokolich, that there was a Port Authority lane reassignment in progress that had NO budget, NO history of meetings to discuss the need for such a “traffic study”, NO history of a decision to give the go-ahead to such a “traffic study”, and Port Authority Foye immediately ordered an end to the non-study study. While Sokolich was still floundering about wondering why Baroni wasn’t calling him back. Sokolich has never said that he had personally contacted Christie about the traffic jam during the traffic jam. Sokolich has said that he hopes Christie wasn’t involved in this. If Sokolich had actually, personally, talked to Christie about the traffic jam in Ft Lee, I would think that Sokolich would have publically mentioned that by now. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/865 "2014-03-06T15:57:56Z")
I think the commercial case is going to be impossible to prove criminal intent. The selection process by its nature can’t be 100% free of bias. Even when approached with the best of intentions, one company’s pitch may resonate with the selection committee for intangible reasons. I wouldn’t waste my time barking up that tree, sure it looks odd that the company that showed Christie in a flattering way got the bid but you’d have a devil of a time proving that was the deciding factor. I’ll put my faith in the US Attorney. If he feels that there is evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Christie, let him present that case. If not, he’ll let us know. In any event, Christie’s 2016 dream is over. If guilty, he needs to worry about staying out of prison. If innocent, he is exposed as being an incompetent manager. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/866 "2014-03-06T16:04:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, they already have that, too, just like everyone else in the country. What they’re looking for is not evidence of involvement, but evidence of criminal activity. Which I admit that I do not have: The evidence is still also consistent with mere incompetence. Actual evidence of involvement could be considered criminal activity. You don’t have evidence of involvement, just like everyone (everyone? really? interesting choice of words.) else in the country. We have different standards. You know Christie is guilty and I want to see proof of Christie’s involvement. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/867 "2014-03-06T16:19:34Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > You’re welcome. And thank you for publicly acknowledging my use of the word, “yet”. Many posters seem to have overlooked the fact that I’ve repeatedly said that there is no proof/evidence of Christie being involved in the Great NJ Lane Reassignment “yet”. > > I’m not defending Christie. I’ve never defended Christie. I question the repeated media reports that suggest Christie was involved without their providing any evidence that Christie was actually involved. If Christie is guilty, then Christie is guilty. If Christie isn’t guilty… > > I’m willing to wait for the investigations play out before make a decision about Christie’s guilt. The news reports I see are saying basically what you are saying. No evidence _yet_ of Christie’s fingerprints on this scandal, but lots of questions still unanswered. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/868 "2014-03-06T16:21:53Z")
I never said that I know Christie is guilty. I strongly suspect it, and I know that he is either guilty or incompetent, but I can’t rule out the possibility of incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/869 "2014-03-06T16:30:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think the commercial case is going to be impossible to prove criminal intent. The selection process by its nature can’t be 100% free of bias. Even when approached with the best of intentions, one company’s pitch may resonate with the selection committee for intangible reasons. I wouldn’t waste my time barking up that tree, sure it looks odd that the company that showed Christie in a flattering way got the bid but you’d have a devil of a time proving that was the deciding factor. > > I’ll put my faith in the US Attorney. If he feels that there is evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Christie, let him present that case. If not, he’ll let us know. In any event, Christie’s 2016 dream is over. If guilty, he needs to worry about staying out of prison. If innocent, he is exposed as being an incompetent manager. Because there was an actual, documented process involved, I would think that decision making process involved in the TV commercial would make that an easier case to make. Did the commercial(s) that wasn’t chosen meet the criteria of the selection committee? If they didn’t, then case closed. If the TV commercial not chosen did meet the criteria AND it was the lowest bidder, then why wasn’t it chosen? The committee has some ‘splainin’ to do. Had the criteria changed? Had pressure been illegally applied to dump one in favor of the other? Did the selection committee authorized taxpayer dollars be spent, not on the lowest bidder, but to appease the powerful? I also have faith in the U.S. Attorney. I have no faith in the political investigation. 7 Democrats and 4 Republicans pretty much guarantees a 7 to 4 vote that Christie stole the Lindbergh baby. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/870 "2014-03-06T17:34:47Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Yes. > > (It’s difficult for a doorhinge to argue with a goddess. You are something to adore and I am merely something to a door.) 😃 Clever. Also a convenient way of not dealing with an argument you can’t win. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/871 "2014-03-06T17:47:48Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Because there was an actual, documented process involved, I would think that decision making process involved in the TV commercial would make that an easier case to make. Did the commercial(s) that wasn’t chosen meet the criteria of the selection committee? If they didn’t, then case closed. If the TV commercial not chosen did meet the criteria AND it was the lowest bidder, then why wasn’t it chosen? The committee has some ‘splainin’ to do. Had the criteria changed? Had pressure been illegally applied to dump one in favor of the other? Did the selection committee authorized taxpayer dollars be spent, not on the lowest bidder, but to appease the powerful? Not necessarily. My workplace has a process for hiring and promoting. They form selection committees and ask each candidate the same questions. And the result is always that the same person that everyone knew would get the job before the interviews even start winds up getting it. They simply hear what they want to hear during the interviews and pick who they want to pick. Same thing with the commercial. The selectors simply decided that the firm that featured Christie was the most qualified and you can’t prove that they did not do so objectively. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/872 "2014-03-06T23:25:12Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Clever. Also a convenient way of not dealing with an argument you can’t win. According to Wiki, there are 565 municipalities in the U.S. state of New Jersey. There are five types of municipality in the state—boroughs (250), cities (52), towns (15), townships (245), and villages (3). > **[List of municipalities in New Jersey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_New_Jersey)** > > New Jersey is a state located in the Northeastern United States. According to the 2020 United States Census, New Jersey is the 11th most populous state with 9,288,994 inhabitants but the fifth smallest by land area, spanning 7,354.76 square miles (19,048.7 km2). As of 2024\[update\], New Jersey is divided into 21 counties and contains 564 municipalities consisting of five types: 253 boroughs, 52 cities, 15 towns, 240 townships, and four villages. The largest municipality by population in New As... Christie is responsible for all of them plus all of the inter-state issues, state parks, state budget, state taxes, state energy, state recovery from a really big storm, and everything else state related. It appears that Christie has quite a bit more responsibility than Sokolich. _Wait. Hold on. Stop everything. One of the state’s mayors can’t handle what at first appears to be a traffic jam in his city. The State’s business can wait while the governor straightens everything out for him_. Really? If Christie hadn’t been made aware that Ft Lee was under attack by Port Authority Wildstein and Baroni, why would Christie chose to embareass Sokolich by doing the mayor’s job? Extraordinary, as well as, ordinary traffic jams are something people expect their mayor to handle. No one has come forward to say that they had personally informed Christie that Ft Lee had a Port Authority traffic jam. Or that Sokolich needed help doing his mayoral job. Not even Sokolich has said he personally contacted Christie. I fault Sokolich for what Sokolich couldn’t accomplish. Ya know, now that you mention it, I’ve never seen Spider-Man and Chris Christie at the same time. You don’t suppose they are the same person do you? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/873 "2014-03-06T23:41:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Not necessarily. My workplace has a process for hiring and promoting. They form selection committees and ask each candidate the same questions. And the result is always that the same person that everyone knew would get the job before the interviews even start winds up getting it. They simply hear what they want to hear during the interviews and pick who they want to pick. Same thing with the commercial. The selectors simply decided that the firm that featured Christie was the most qualified and you can’t prove that they did not do so objectively. I would hope that hiring and staff promotions would be handled differently than capital expenses and the various media promotions (billboards, radio and TV ads, pamphlets, buttons, maps) of the State. Less subjected to individual bias. Maybe not. However, “IF” the NJ selectors actually have that much leeway, there would be no point in even having an investigation. And there is an investigation. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/874 "2014-03-06T23:59:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Christie is responsible for all of them Yep, he sure is. That’s his job. And if that’s too hard, he should resign. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/875 "2014-03-07T00:07:39Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > 1. I have no authority in NJ. > [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, **doorhinge** , how is it relevant that you have no authority in New Jersey? We’ve already established that the people one needed to talk to to solve this problem were in New York, and you have the exact same amount of authority in New York that Mayor Sokolich does. > [@doorhinge](#): > > It’s not relevant. > [@doorhinge](#): > > (bolding added) > > Quote: > Originally Posted by j666 View Post > (shortened for brevity) > > doorhinge, you brought up the issue of the effectiveness of Sokolich’s actions. While others may agree, don’t you think it a bit shameless of you to just call it “not relevant” now?Ahem… > > _Quote: > Originally Posted by Chronos > Wait, doorhinge, how is it relevant that you have no authority in New Jersey?_ > > I responded that it was not relevant - that I have no authority in NJ. If it’s not relevant, why did you introduce the argument? You introduced a completely irrelevant topic, Sokolich’s effectiveness, and steadfastly refuse to support you argument, address any argument that Sokolich could not legally take any action, or describe any legal recourse Sokolich had. When called out on the shameful hollowness of your arguments, you switch to a different topic until you are pressed there and, it appears, you believe we have forgotten the details of what you said earlier, then bring up Solkolich again. It’s not like people aren’t noticing this. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/876 "2014-03-07T02:38:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I question how much truth there is in most advertising. As I understand the process, an organization decides what criteria the commercial/advertising must meet. Multiple bids are accepted for consideration. Bids that do not meet the criteria are rejected and the lowest bidder, that meets the criteria, wins. > > There is a paper/email/twitter trail of communications between the parties involved. Unlike some rogue Port Authority wildman reassigning lanes because he wanted to prove how tough or influential he was. > > It should be much easier to prove Christie’s involvement/non-involvement in the TV commercials approval. then you don’t understand the advertising pitch process very well. There will normally be two components - the “hard” part that says “two different radio ads, three press ads” etc etc Then the soft part - the soft part is the creative process of how well the ad agency interprets and targets the audience, how creative they are and the sorts of ad they produce. A GOOD business development manager will be talking to one or more of the decision makers to get “insight” as to what the selection committee is looking for. Here it is very easy to steer someone in a particular direction. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/877 "2014-03-07T06:50:45Z")
So howcum Sokolich didn’t just seize control of the bridge like a _real_ leader would do? Probably wears Mom jeans. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/878 "2014-03-07T14:40:22Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > then you don’t understand the advertising pitch process very well. > > There will normally be two components - > > the “hard” part that says “two different radio ads, three press ads” etc etc > > Then the soft part - the soft part is the creative process of how well the ad agency interprets and targets the audience, how creative they are and the sorts of ad they produce. > > A GOOD business development manager will be talking to one or more of the decision makers to get “insight” as to what the selection committee is looking for. Here it is very easy to steer someone in a particular direction. The “pitch process” is one thing. That would be the producers efforts to insure that their product would be chosen. I’m under the impression that the feds are investigating how the TV commercial(s) were selected by the selection committee? Was political influence/pressure used to chose one commercial over another or did the commercial(s) chosen A) actually meet the specified criteria and B) was the lowest bidder win? Are the commercial’s “business development managers” also the target of the federal investigation? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/879 "2014-03-07T14:45:17Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Yep, he sure is. That’s his job. And if that’s too hard, he should resign. Hey, we agree on something. If the job proves too hard, the head of the executive branch, whether they’re a governor or mayor, should resign. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/880 "2014-03-07T14:50:38Z")
> [@j666](#): > > If it’s not relevant, why did you introduce the argument? > > …It’s not like people aren’t noticing this. (post shortened for clarity) It’s not relevant. I was, however, responding to a question that I had been asked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=45)