# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/981 "2014-03-16T17:20:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Is this the level that you’ve sunk to? Bullying and intimidation? Are you admitting that you have no case against Christie and intend to stop people from discussing it because you don’t like the content? > > \*Tell me, Clarice– have the lambs stopped screaming? > > - Dr. Hannibal Lecter\* you’re not really “discussing it.” You just keep repeating the obvious, that the investigation is not complete and therefore we have to wait and see what turns up. No one is disputing that. Not even the “media,” despite your repeated charges. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/982 "2014-03-16T17:41:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **doorhinge** , is there a case against Christie’s judgment and leadership for choosing these asswipes for senior staff positions at all? Will you stipulate that much, at least? :dubious: Good question. Is there a case against Christie’s judgment? The Port Authority’s Wildstein was certainly a poor choice. Are the 30+ other Christie Port Authority appointments also involved in criminal/stupid activities? (Did Christie appoint Baroni?) Did Christie personally select these people for appointments or was he responding to requests from other political party members or big donors? So many questions remain. Did Kelly opt for the BBD (a bigger, better deal) when she chose to conspire with Port Authority’s Wildstein? Maybe she realized she’d never get rich working for Christie but someone like Wildstein could fill her pockets with cash? As Port Authority’s Baroni suggested at the end of his Powerpoint scam, it’s _tbd_ (to be determined). If _they_ want to get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible, the extremely political political committee should stand aside (they can’t fine or incarcerate anyone) and let the feds make the case without political interference. The feds should offer Kelly a deal to bolster the case against the Port Authority’s Wildstein and Baroni, AND MAYBE BE ABLE TO TIE CHRISTIE TO SOME WRONGDOING. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/983 "2014-03-16T17:49:10Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > you’re not really “discussing it.” You just keep repeating the obvious, that the investigation is not complete and therefore we have to wait and see what turns up. No one is disputing that. Not even the “media,” despite your repeated charges. Yes it is obvious. It’s also obvious that those attempting to tie Christie to the Great NJ Lane Reassignment have no actual facts to back up their claims. They only have rumors, feelings, and political beliefs to bolster their _hopes_ of Christie’s involvement. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/984 "2014-03-16T17:51:33Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > …I am not making a case against Christie,… (post shortened for clarity) I completely agree with you, 100%. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/985 "2014-03-16T17:56:00Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I completely agree with you, 100%. I would say Thank You, but I suspect you’re really saying that I _am_ trying to make a case against Christie but failing, Amirite? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/986 "2014-03-16T17:58:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Yes it is obvious. It’s also obvious that those attempting to tie Christie to the Great NJ Lane Reassignment have no actual facts to back up their claims. They only have rumors, feelings, and political beliefs to bolster their _hopes_ of Christie’s involvement. They’re saying the same thing you are: > [@](#): > > The feds should offer Kelly a deal to bolster the case against the Port Authority’s Wildstein and Baroni, AND MAYBE BE ABLE TO TIE CHRISTIE TO SOME WRONGDOING. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/987 "2014-03-16T18:02:14Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Good question. Is there a case against Christie’s judgment? You can’t even see _that_ clearly? > [@](#): > > The feds should offer Kelly a deal to bolster the case against the Port Authority’s Wildstein and Baroni, AND MAYBE BE ABLE TO TIE CHRISTIE TO SOME WRONGDOING. Or not. Yes, that’s probably the way to bet, that Christie Crony Kelly and/or Christie Crony Wildstein save themselves some prison time by ratting out Governor Soprano, and maybe about a helluva lot more than Bridgegate, too. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/988 "2014-03-16T18:14:46Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The Port Authority’s Wildstein You keep _doing_ that! :smack: Your referring to him as ‘Port Authority Wildstein’ does not change the fact that he is a Christie appointee. Nor does it change that > [@Bergen County Record reporter Shawn Boburg](#): > > Wildstein was known as the Governor’s eyes and ears inside this massive agency. Your attempts at obfuscation are unsuccessful. You have been told that they are unsuccessful. Yet you continue to post ‘Port Authority Wildstein’ as if you believe that repeatedly saying it will make his appointee status irrelevant. Why don’t you post ‘Christie Cronie Wildstein’, since Christie appointed him to the Port Authority for the purpose of reporting to Christie and following Christie’s directives? It’s more accurate than your attempts to say he was just on the Port Authority. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/989 "2014-03-16T18:53:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > You keep _doing_ that! :smack: > > Your referring to him as ‘Port Authority Wildstein’ does not change the fact that he is a Christie appointee. Nor does it change that > > Your attempts at obfuscation are unsuccessful. You have been told that they are unsuccessful. Yet you continue to post ‘Port Authority Wildstein’ as if you believe that repeatedly saying it will make his appointee status irrelevant. > > Why don’t you post ‘Christie Cronie Wildstein’, since Christie appointed him to the Port Authority for the purpose of reporting to Christie and following Christie’s directives? It’s more accurate than your attempts to say he was just on the Port Authority. Hahahaha. I haven’t said he was _just_ on the Port Authority. You said that. I prefer my product branding over your product branding. Which version isn’t true? If you have _actual_ proof that Port Authority’s Wildstein was appointed, “to the Port Authority for the purpose of reporting to Christie and following Christie’s directives”, I like to see it. So would the various investigations. p.s. Port Authority’s Wildstein includes an apostrophe with an “s”. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/990 "2014-03-16T18:56:50Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > I would say Thank You, but I suspect you’re really saying that I _am_ trying to make a case against Christie but failing, Amirite? Close. I agreed with your, “I am not making a case against Christie”, statement. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/991 "2014-03-16T19:05:53Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I prefer my product branding over your product branding. Which version isn’t true? Yours is less accurate than everybody else’s. As such, it is a pathetic attempt at deflection. Wildstein’s job didn’t exist before Christie had it made for him. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/992 "2014-03-16T19:26:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If you have _actual_ proof that Port Authority’s Wildstein was appointed, “to the Port Authority for the purpose of reporting to Christie and following Christie’s directives”, I like to see it. So would the various investigations. > . Some [circumstantial evidence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence): He was appointed to a position that never existed before. The position had no job description. The position was eliminated after he resigned. All of those things are unusual for public sector employment. > [@](#): > > Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact—like a fingerprint at the scene of a crime. By contrast, direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion directly—i.e., without need for any additional evidence or inference. > > On its own, it is the nature of circumstantial evidence for more than one explanation to still be possible. Inference from one piece of circumstantial evidence may not guarantee accuracy. Circumstantial evidence usually accumulates into a collection, so that the pieces then become corroborating evidence. Together, they may more strongly support one particular inference over another. An explanation involving circumstantial evidence becomes more valid as proof of a fact when the alternative explanations have been ruled out. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/993 "2014-03-16T19:27:10Z")
Hell, he didn’t even know those people! Sure, went to high school with that one guy, but Christie was a cool kid and Wildstein was an AV Club reject. And sure, he said a lot of nice things about those other people that he threw under the bus, people standing around him and gazing respectfully in photo ops, but does that mean he knew their names, or why they were there? And this fellow Samson! Now, him Christie knows, sure, pretty much has to. And, OK, maybe he had an extraordinary uptick in his law business with the arrival of the Christie admin, but what does that prove outside of good old American entrepreneurship! And thus far Christie has stood firmly in his support, which will not waver, will not falter! Unless Mr Samson suddenly displays poor judgement… A guy plays piano in a waterfront sorority house, who’s to say he knows what’s going on there? Maybe he thinks sweet jelly roll is a kind of doughnut, its not impossible! It could happen! Absent an affidavit from God Almighty countersigned by the Archangel Gabriel, we just can’t leap to any conclusions! ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/994 "2014-03-16T19:39:20Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Some [circumstantial evidence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence): He was appointed to a position that never existed before. The position had no job description. The position was eliminated after he resigned. All of those things are unusual for public sector employment. Ok, but do you have _actual_ proof that “circumstantial evidence” is an actual thing? Have you ever seen one? What color is it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/995 "2014-03-16T20:26:50Z")
Grey. Lotsa shades of grey. Thirty, forty maybe… ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/996 "2014-03-17T00:18:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If you have _actual_ proof that Port Authority’s Wildstein was appointed, “to the Port Authority for the purpose of reporting to Christie and following Christie’s directives”, _ **I like to see it** _. So would the various investigations. > > p.s. Port Authority’s Wildstein includes an apostrophe with an “s”. Oops! _Muphry’s Law_ strikes again! :o _ **I like to see it** _ wants an apostrophe d after _ **I** _. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/997 "2014-03-17T15:25:26Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Yours is less accurate than everybody else’s. As such, it is a pathetic attempt at deflection. (post shortened for clarity) Less accurate? That’s absurd. Wildstein worked for the Port Authority. I’m not joining the lynch mob based on your opinion that a _fact_ is somehow less accurate. Or for any other red herring, no matter how it’s served. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/998 "2014-03-17T15:33:46Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Some [circumstantial evidence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence): He was appointed to a position that never existed before. The position had no job description. The position was eliminated after he resigned. All of those things are unusual for public sector employment. Circumstantial evidence, the next best thing to being there. How many innocent people have been sent to prison based on circumstantial evidence? Does that matter? In order for circumstantial evidence to be considered useful, it has to be accompanied by other circumstantial, or direct, evidence that can actually stand up to reason, and logic. Circumstantial and direct evidence shows that there is something seriously wrong with the Port Authority. I agree with you that Wildstein’s appointment is suspicious. I would like to know who recommended Wildstein to Christie for the appointment. Or did Christie decide he needed just one more guy in the Port Authority to supplement his 34 other appointments? I’ve see very little information from the political investigation into the actions of Port Authority chief engineer, Peter Zipf, and Port Authority chief traffic engineer, Jose Rivera. Emails show that both had participated in the Great NJ Lane Reassignment before the lane reassignment took place. Port Authority’s Wildstein and Zipf had discussed reducing the entrance lanes from three to two. Port Authority’s Wildstein and Rivera had discussed reducing the entrance lanes from three to one. > **[Fort Lee lane closure scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal)** > > The Fort Lee lane closure scandal, better known as Bridgegate, was a political scandal in the U.S. state of New Jersey in 2013 and 2014. It involved a staff member and political appointees of then-governor Chris Christie colluding to create traffic jams in Fort Lee, New Jersey by closing lanes at the main toll plaza for the upper level of the George Washington Bridge. > On September 9, 2013, two of three toll lanes for a local street entrance were closed during morning rush hour. Local official... ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/999 "2014-03-17T15:42:53Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Circumstantial evidence, the next best thing to being there. How many innocent people have been sent to prison based on circumstantial evidence? Does that matter? In order for circumstantial evidence to be considered useful, it has to be accompanied by other circumstantial, or direct, evidence that can actually stand up to reason, and logic. > > Circumstantial and direct evidence shows that there is something seriously wrong with the Port Authority. > > I agree with you that Wildstein’s appointment is suspicious. I would like to know who recommended Wildstein to Christie for the appointment. Or did Christie decide he needed just one more guy in the Port Authority to supplement his 34 other appointments? I wouldn’t convict the Governor based on the suspicious nature of Wildstein’s appointment. Not in the court of public opinion or in a real court. I would, however, investigate some more. That’s what’s happening. Given unusual actions by high level Christie associates, I would be surprised to find out that the Governor is more involved than we now know. I remain open to the possibility he did nothing wrong, but that would surprise me. Perhaps no evidence of wrong doing will come to light, and we will just be left with suspicions. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1000 "2014-03-17T17:33:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Or for any other red herring, no matter how it’s served. You’re the one serving up the fish. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Less accurate? That’s absurd. Wildstein worked for the Port Authority. It’s like saying ‘Rock Musician Charles Manson’. (No, I’m not comparing Wildstein or Christie to Manson.) Manson certainly _did_ release albums and singles, but it’s not the thing most people know about him. Wildstein did ‘work for the Port Authority’. But ‘worked for’ is another of your red herrings – technically accurate, but misleading. Wildstein was the Director of Interstate Capital Projects, a position that didn’t even exist before Christie appointed him. ‘Christie Appointee Wildstein’ is indeed more accurate than ‘Port Authority Wildstein’, just as ‘Cult Leader Charles Manson’ is more accurate than ‘Rock Musician Charles Manson’. There is something I don’t understand. Everyone knows you’re trying to put a positive (or at lease less negative) spin on Wildstein’s position. You attempting to distance him from Christie, even after it has been pointed out repeatedly that the position wouldn’t even have existed unless Christie had it made for him. Everyone sees what you’re doing. But you keep doing it. Why? Do you really believe you’re making any progress? It reminds me of my oldest friend. He was a pathological liar. (I’m not calling you one; I’m referring to my friend.) He was always pulling cons and scams. He tried them on me. I told him I knew what he was doing, and I told him what he was doing so that he would know that I knew what I was doing. But he kept trying the same shticks. I don’t talk to him anymore. (And I avoided talking to him before he became a rabid Birther.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=51)