# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1061 "2014-03-26T17:43:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [The billion-dollar development at the center of 'Bridgegate'](http://www.msnbc.com/steve-kornacki/the-bridgegate-theory-you-havent-heard) > > **The billion-dollar development at the center of ‘Bridgegate’** > > (Warning! MSNBC! Your correspondent from the conservative wing of the extreme left accepts no responsibility for any infestation by liberal cooties!) > …If this sort of genteel extortion is the real crux of the biscuit, it allows the possibility that some of the major players here, such as Kelly and Wildstein, were unaware of the true nature of the fiasco. They might have actually believed that they were simply playing a game of political hardball, punishing the mayor of Fort Lee for his lack of vision and probity in his endorsements. Not exactly as innocent as lambs frolicking in the daffodils, but not greedy, grasping extortion. > > Cold comfort. (post shortened and dots added) It seems that MSNBC entertainer Steve Kornacki has a lot riding on his version of the, as of yet, unverified _Christie was trying to punish Sokolich_ rumor. Plus, Kornacki didn’t/hasn’t provided any proof that his version of the reason behind the Great NJ Lane Reassignment is true. And we mustn’t forget that fellow MSNBC entertainer Maddow later floated her own, as of yet, unverified rumor, that this was over a disagreement between Democrats and Republicans concerning state Supreme Court nominations. Which unverified rumor must be true? (Which begs the question - Will Kornacki keep his job if Maddow’s version is proven true?) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1062 "2014-03-26T18:43:43Z")
What a fascinating line of conjecture! Perhaps you should open a thread on the topic? I’m sure there are many, many Dopers who would much prefer to discuss the dynamics of MSNBC reporting rather than the sordid business of corruption in high places! Well, perhaps not “many”. Several. Some. Actually, pretty much just you. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1063 "2014-03-26T18:51:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’ve taken a strong position on the Great NJ Lane Reassignment _story_. You have indeed. Unfortunately it’s conclusion-driven, not fact-driven. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1064 "2014-03-26T19:09:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What a fascinating line of conjecture! Perhaps you should open a thread on the topic? The Pit might be a good place for it. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1065 "2014-03-26T21:24:32Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > [REUTERS](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/24/internal-review-chris-christie_n_5021001.html?utm_hp_ref=new-york&ir=New+York) > > > [@](#): > > > > After two months, 70 interviews and more than $1 million in legal fees paid by New Jersey taxpayers, the internal review is complete and has found no evidence Christie was involved with planning or directing the lane closures which snarled traffic in the borough of Fort Lee, New Jersey, according to a report published in The New York Times. > > Everybody can go home now. > > Laughable, except for the “_more than $1 million in legal fees **paid by New Jersey taxpayers** _” part… In case anybody didn’t realize, this was an internal review **commissioned by Chris Christie**. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1066 "2014-03-26T21:28:09Z")
One of the people involved in the Chris Christie commissioned internal review is an old friend of his who spends summers with Christie and his family. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1067 "2014-03-26T22:16:54Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > In case anybody didn’t realize, this was an internal review **commissioned by Chris Christie**. Funny that… :dubious: > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > One of the people involved in the Chris Christie commissioned internal review is an old friend of his who spends summers with Christie and his family. Funny that… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1068 "2014-03-26T22:18:34Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > In case anybody didn’t realize, this was an internal review **commissioned by Chris Christie**. Well, who would know better what happened in his own office? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1069 "2014-03-26T22:24:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Well, who would know better what happened in his own office? But judge, none of us were involved in that murder. Just ask us! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1070 "2014-03-27T02:12:14Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Neutrality? How did you jump to the conclusion that I’m neutral? I’ve taken a strong position on the Great NJ Lane Reassignment _story_. Your own words, **Christie Defender doorhinge**. > [@doorhinge](#): > > I don’t care if Christie is guilty or not. Post shortened for clarity. ` ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1071 "2014-03-27T16:28:38Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Your own words, **Christie Defender doorhinge**. > > Post shortened for clarity. > > ` Bravo. Yes, those are my words. Since you did not specify what you thought I was/wasn’t neutral about, it was your perception of my neutrality that I question. I said that I’ve taken a strong position on the Great NJ Lane Reassignment _story_. You seem to have jumped to the conclusion that I’m defending Christie. As you rightly pointed out, I don’t care if Christie is guilty or not. I’m neutral on Christie’s guilt or innocence. If Christie is guilty, and there has been no evidence presented to date (aka yet) that he is, he can join a long line of Democrat and Republican governors who have been sent to prison. Buh bye. _IF_ there is proof. We seem to have different standards. I do want to see any proof you have, or anyone else has, that Christie was actually involved in the Great NJ Lane Reassignment debacle. You got any? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1072 "2014-03-27T16:56:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You have indeed. Unfortunately it’s conclusion-driven, not fact-driven. And what, exactly, do you believe is my conclusion? That the media outlets have screwed up their “investigative” reporting from the very beginning? That would be true. That Christie is guilty or innocent? That would not be true. That there has been no evidence presented that proves Christie was actually involved with the Great NJ Lane Reassignment? That would be true. Christie’s internal review fails to truly exonerate Christie because Kelly, Port Authority’s Wildstein, Port Authority’s Baroni, and other key players have refused to speak to them. The Political Committee’s investigation has so far failed to implicate Christie because key players have refused to speak to them also. Plus, there is no evidence that Christie was actually involved. I’m assuming that because the political prosecutors request for information far exceeded the scope of their intended inquiry (landlords? and ex-in-laws?), that the judge will uphold Kelly and Stepien’s 5th Amendment protection. Oh well. That leaves the federal criminal investigation. Maybe they can get to the bottom of what actually happened? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1073 "2014-03-27T17:07:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Christie’s internal review fails to truly exonerate Christie because Kelly, Port Authority’s Wildstein, Port Authority’s Baroni, and other key players have refused to speak to them. Or perhaps because Christie’s so-called internal review was formed for the sole purpose of finding Christie innocent of any wrongdoing. Why should Kelly or Wildstein give them the time of day? Here’s about what went down: Independent Review Team: “Hey, Christie, did you do anything wrong?” Christie: “Why shucks, no!” Independent Review Team: “Good enough for us! You’re cleared!” Christie: “Thanks! Here, take a million dollars of taxpayer money!” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1074 "2014-03-27T17:23:37Z")
Could be. Here’s a scenario: Mr. Samson wants to send a message to prospective investors in New Jersey that hiring a certain well respected law firm is a very good idea. He then tells Dupe Wildstein and Patsy Kelly that this is what Christie wants done, nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more, but its all about playing political hardball. In other words, he lets them think its about sticking it to the mayor of Fort Lee and misleads them with deniable hints that he is relaying the wishes of Gov Christie, but that Christie doesn’t want to leave any fingerprints, so they shouldn’t mention it to him, so he can legally say he didn’t know anything about it. Vengeance and greed are both common motivators of criminal behavior, but greed is way out in front. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1075 "2014-03-27T17:34:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Or perhaps because Christie’s so-called internal review was formed for the sole purpose of finding Christie innocent of any wrongdoing. Why should Kelly or Wildstein give them the time of day? Here’s about what went down: > > Independent Review Team: “Hey, Christie, did you do anything wrong?” > > Christie: “Why shucks, no!” > > Independent Review Team: “Good enough for us! You’re cleared!” > > Christie: “Thanks! Here, take a million dollars of taxpayer money!” _Here’s about what went down_:??? Maybe I can help make your case a little stronger. Not that you need my help, of course. :rolleyes: You forgot to mention that Christie’s internal investigation also provided Christie’s lawyers with information as to who was saying what to the other investigations and what questions the other investigations were focusing on. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1076 "2014-03-27T17:48:06Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > _Here’s about what went down_:??? Maybe I can help make your case a little stronger. Not that you need my help, of course. :rolleyes: You forgot to mention that Christie’s internal investigation also provided Christie’s lawyers with information as to who was saying what to the other investigations and what questions the other investigations were focusing on. Seriously, do you think the Christie investigation of Christie had any more credibility than the traffic study story? Was the waste of tax dollars simply to provide the Christie defense team with opposition research? Is the Christie investigation of Christie not by definition a waste of money? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1077 "2014-03-27T17:53:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Could be. Here’s a scenario: Mr. Samson wants to send a message to prospective investors in New Jersey that hiring a certain well respected law firm is a very good idea. He then tells Dupe Wildstein and Patsy Kelly that this is what Christie wants done, nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more, but its all about playing political hardball. In other words, he lets them think its about sticking it to the mayor of Fort Lee and misleads them with deniable hints that he is relaying the wishes of Gov Christie, but that Christie doesn’t want to leave any fingerprints, so they shouldn’t mention it to him, so he can legally say he didn’t know anything about it. > > Vengeance and greed are both common motivators of criminal behavior, but greed is way out in front. I love Patsy Kelly’s music. Blue Moon of Kentucky, I Fall To Pieces, Crazy, If You Got Leaving on Your Mind, Tennessee Waltz. _I was waltzin’, with my darlin’, to the Tenn-es-see Waltz, When an old friend I happened to see_… Classics, true classics. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1078 "2014-03-27T17:58:36Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And what, exactly, do you believe is my conclusion? That the media outlets have screwed up their “investigative” reporting from the very beginning? That would be true. That Christie is guilty or innocent? That would not be true. That there has been no evidence presented that proves Christie was actually involved with the Great NJ Lane Reassignment? That would be true. > > Christie’s internal review fails to truly exonerate Christie because Kelly, Port Authority’s Wildstein, Port Authority’s Baroni, and other key players have refused to speak to them. > > The Political Committee’s investigation has so far failed to implicate Christie because key players have refused to speak to them also. Plus, there is no evidence that Christie was actually involved. I’m assuming that because the political prosecutors request for information far exceeded the scope of their intended inquiry (landlords? and ex-in-laws?), that the judge will uphold Kelly and Stepien’s 5th Amendment protection. Oh well. > > That leaves the federal criminal investigation. Maybe they can get to the bottom of what actually happened? You seem very impatient for a conclusion to this story. It takes some time. Kelly and Wildstein have to stew for awhile and the Committees and grand juries need time to collect documents and talk to people. And, to repeat the obvious, the media haven’t, to my knowledge, stated anything yet in this story that isn’t true. You criticize them for concluding Christie is guilty, but you haven’t pointed out anyone who has done this. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1079 "2014-03-27T18:04:18Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Seriously, do you think the Christie investigation of Christie had any more credibility than the traffic study story? Was the waste of tax dollars simply to provide the Christie defense team with opposition research? Is the Christie investigation of Christie not by definition a waste of money? It is what it is. The rules say Christie can order an investigation. So he did. The rest depends on if you think Christie must be guilty and should just jump off the GW Bridge to save the taxpayers the effort and expense of a trial or that Christie’s legal team wants to present the best case they can in favor of their client? I’m counting on the criminal investigation to discover why the Great NJ Lane Reassignment was considered necessary and who planned and ordered it. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1080 "2014-03-27T18:20:00Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > You seem very impatient for a conclusion to this story. It takes some time. Kelly and Wildstein have to stew for awhile and the Committees and grand juries need time to collect documents and talk to people. > > And, to repeat the obvious, the media haven’t, to my knowledge, stated anything yet in this story that isn’t true. You criticize them for concluding Christie is guilty, but you haven’t pointed out anyone who has done this. Impatient? I’ve got all the time in the world. Since my termination date hasn’t been determined yet, I can wait for the federal investigation to reach a conclusion. _Any_ conclusion. Do you know that Christie actually wanted to punish Sokolich? For anything? Where did people get that information from? The media? Internet bloggers? Do you believe that the unverified rumor that Christie wanted to punish Sokolich is somehow verified because of the unverified and contradictory rumors that Sokolich wouldn’t support Christie for reelection or because of the Harbor Lights project or because there was a DNC/GOP fight over state Supreme Court nominations? The media can repeatedly try to imply that Christie is guilty but I want to see proof. We have different standards. I will continue to question the media outlets actions and reporting. You may chose to accept contradictory rumors as fact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=55)