# Did Christie (or his staff) intentionally cause the Fort Lee traffic jam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351 "2014-01-09T13:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1081 "2014-03-27T18:43:09Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I love Patsy Kelly’s music. Blue Moon of Kentucky, I Fall To Pieces, Crazy, If You Got Leaving on Your Mind, Tennessee Waltz. _I was waltzin’, with my darlin’, to the Tenn-es-see Waltz, When an old friend I happened to see_… Classics, true classics. 😃 You may make gentle and respectful fun of Patsy Cline as you wish, but one wrong word about Emmylou and it’s your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1082 "2014-03-27T18:52:55Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The media can repeatedly try to imply that Christie is guilty but I want to see proof. > > We have different standards. I will continue to question the media outlets actions and reporting. You may chose to accept contradictory rumors as fact. NO ONE IS SAYING IT IS FACT. Yes, they are “raising questions.” Or as you put it “trying to imply.” That’s fine. I am not troubled by a reporter saying “There is no evidence suggesting why Ms. Kelly ordered the lane closures and traffic problems, and some people are wondering if it’s connected to the mayor’s refusal to endorse Christie’s reelection bid.” That’s no different than saying “Osama Bid Laden may have designed the 9/11 attacks to disrupt the world financial markets.” Looking for potential motives is legitimate reporting. It’s legitimate background. It’s done all the time. If they were reporting these theories as fact, then I would agree with you. Since they are not, I don’t get your complaint. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1083 "2014-03-27T19:26:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You may make gentle and respectful fun of Patsy Cline as you wish, but one wrong word about Emmylou and it’s your ass. Oh great. I just got _Tennessee Waltz_ out of my mind and now I’ve got it filled with _Jambalaya_. _Goodbye, Joe, me gotta go, me, oh, my, oh. Me gotta go pole the pirogue down the bayou. My Yvonne, sweetest one, me, oh, my, oh. Son of a gun, we`re gonna have big fun on the bayou_. Take that. 😛 Oh, and just to keep on this thread related, there is no proof that Emmylou was involved in the Great NJ Lane Reassignment, either. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1084 "2014-03-27T19:47:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > NO ONE IS SAYING IT IS FACT. Yes, they are “raising questions.” Or as you put it “trying to imply.” That’s fine. I am not troubled by a reporter saying “There is no evidence suggesting why Ms. Kelly ordered the lane closures and traffic problems, and some people are wondering if it’s connected to the mayor’s refusal to endorse Christie’s reelection bid.” That’s no different than saying “Osama Bid Laden may have designed the 9/11 attacks to disrupt the world financial markets.” Looking for potential motives is legitimate reporting. It’s legitimate background. It’s done all the time. If they were reporting these theories as fact, then I would agree with you. Since they are not, I don’t get your complaint. Osama Bid Laden was actually involved with the 9/11 attacks. I am troubled by “reporters/entertainers” repeatedly saying, for two months 24/7, that, “There is no evidence suggesting why Christie ordered the lane closures and traffic problems, **and some people are wondering if it’s connected to the mayor’s refusal to endorse Christie’s reelection bid**.” Is there or is there not, any evidence that Christie wanted to punish Sokolich? Is there or is there not, any evidence that Christie ordered the lane closures? Is there or is there not, any evidence that this was about not supporting Christie for reelection or Harbor Lights or court nominations? Maybe if the media outlets repeat the same unverified rumors just one more time, they will magically become true? Even if each rumor contradicts the others. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1085 "2014-03-27T20:09:46Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Osama Bid Laden was actually involved with the 9/11 attacks. Read this again to see if you actually addressed the point of that sentence: > [@](#): > > “Osama Bid Laden may have designed the 9/11 attacks to disrupt the world financial markets” There’s a part you missed, I trust you won’t do so again > [@doorhinge](#): > > I am troubled by “reporters/entertainers” repeatedly saying, for two months 24/7, that, “There is no evidence suggesting why Christie ordered the lane closures and traffic problems, **and some people are wondering if it’s connected to the mayor’s refusal to endorse Christie’s reelection bid**.” Some people do wonder, that’s a fact. I’m wondering that. Many here are wondering that. People in NJ are wondering that. And yes, despite what you might think, it is a legitimate question. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1086 "2014-03-27T20:15:34Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > NO ONE IS SAYING IT IS FACT. Don’t go picking on his biggest, bestest, baddest number one strawman. Second string **Incompetent Sokolich** is not quite ready to move up to first string. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1087 "2014-03-27T20:56:15Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The rest depends on if you think Christie must be guilty and should just jump off the GW Bridge to save the taxpayers the effort and expense of a trial or that Christie’s legal team wants to present the best case they can in favor of their client? Probably a “tsunami” joke in there somewhere, but I of course would never. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1088 "2014-03-27T20:59:27Z")
What, _never_? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1089 "2014-03-27T20:59:55Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Read this again to see if you actually addressed the point of that sentence: > > There’s a part you missed, I trust you won’t do so again > > Some people do wonder, that’s a fact. I’m wondering that. Many here are wondering that. People in NJ are wondering that. And yes, despite what you might think, it is a legitimate question. Yes, I did address the point of that sentence, IMHO, of course. What is it that you trust I won’t do again? Refuse to submit to groupthink? Some people think Christie must guilty and they don’t require any proof. I don’t know if Christie is guilty or not but I’m wiling to wait for proof before I decide. I’m also willing to question the media outlet’s actions and their “investigative” reporting. At some point, hopefully, the media outlets are going to have to back up their implications and rumors. I can wait. I’m a big fan of asking questions. I haven’t asked anyone to stop asking questions. The media outlets can repeat their unverified rumors till the cows come home. However, at some point in time, I expect them to verify their rumors. Something that they have been unable to do, so far. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1090 "2014-03-28T08:05:52Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’m waiting to hear the end of your story also. Especially since you chose to ignore my post MXXXIX where I agreed with **elucidator** ’s post MXXXVI. Say now, this wouldn’t be that old dodge I’ve heard tell about where you meet a question with a question, and then hope no-one notices that you didn’t answer the question directed to you, would it? I didn’t ignore the post you’ve now oddly decided to reference in roman numerals. It didn’t answer the question "why did Kelly do what she did? What was her motivation, **Doorhinge** , IYHO? What’s your best theory? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1091 "2014-03-28T15:53:53Z")
Well, now we have the report from a rock-solid no-nonsense, unbiased, and hard nosed investigative team, though its a pity they didn’t name it Operation Candor. Turns out, she’s a woman! She had some romantic affiliation with a campaign manager for Christie, which was ended at his choice. So, we have a woman scorned and hell hath no fury, etc. So, the affair being ended (at his insistence, it should be noted…) she naturally turned her unbridled wrath on the mayor of Fort Lee, for reasons obscure and unknowable, because women. Did we mention that she was rejected by her former swain? Just to be sure, let’s mention that one more time, the old dumperoo, \*adios, muchacha. \* Women, huh? Amirite? Pull the old meat thermometer out of the pudding, and they just lose their shit! Me, I usually get “thank you!” notes, followed by restraining orders, but who knows with this woman, she looks like she eats a jar of sour pickles for breakfast. So of course she unleashed her wrath on some guy who had nothing to do with it, in a manner entirely unrelated to anything. Totally believable, because women. Did we mention that he’s the one who broke it off? Well, he did. He didn’t tell us that, she didn’t tell us that, we didn’t talk to them, but everybody in the office knew all about it! So, all sorted out, then, nothing more to see here, you looky-loos, move along. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1092 "2014-03-28T16:20:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, now we have the report from a rock-solid no-nonsense, unbiased, and hard nosed investigative team, though its a pity they didn’t name it Operation Candor. Turns out, she’s a woman! Hillary? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1093 "2014-03-28T16:33:41Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Say now, this wouldn’t be that old dodge I’ve heard tell about where you meet a question with a question, and then hope no-one notices that you didn’t answer the question directed to you, would it? I didn’t ignore the post you’ve now oddly decided to reference in roman numerals. It didn’t answer the question "why did Kelly do what she did? What was her motivation, **Doorhinge** , IYHO? What’s your best theory? FYI - I’ve never even owned a new Dodge and **doorhinge** isn’t capitalized. MXXXIX = 1039. MXXXVI = 1036. > **[Taysentoto - Bandar Casino Online Terpercaya dan Terbaik](https://www.ani-world.net/)** > > Taysentoto adalah bandar casino online terpercaya yang menawarkan pengalaman bermain terbaik dengan berbagai permainan menarik dan bonus besar. Bergabung sekarang untuk menikmati permainan casino berkualitas tinggi! Meanwhile, _"why did Kelly do what she did? What was her motivation, Doorhinge, IYHO? What’s your best theory?_ post 1036 **elucidator** - \*To my eyes, the exchange strongly implies a preconceived plan of action, like Wildstien already knew what the words “time for some traffic problems” meant. I wouldn’t be all that surprised if they thought the plan was payback for political reasons, naively believing it was nothing more than hardball political shenanigans. \* post 1039 **doorhinge** \*“Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee,” I agree that Kelly’s email was, most likely, a signal to Port Authority’s Wildstein. Kelly and Port Authority’s Wildstein understood what it meant. I don’t. Federal investigators should offer Kelly a deal and find out what the message actually did mean. Before the political persecution committee screws up the criminal investigation any more than it already has. Was the phrase, “Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee,” an order to Port Authority’s Wildstein? Or was it a _one if by land, two if by sea_ kind of message that Port Authority’s Wildstein had requested Kelly to supply when the time was right? \* ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1094 "2014-03-28T18:07:11Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > I didn’t ignore the post you’ve now oddly decided to reference in roman numerals. It makes it just a little bit harder to check his work. Just like he doesn’t use the quote function correctly, ignores questions and then demands people ask them multiple times, all to clutter up the thread, obfuscate, and annoy people into no longer engaging with him. It worked on me, I’ll admit. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1095 "2014-03-28T18:12:39Z")
I think the spider at the center of the web is this Samson guy. I think he dropped a few words in the right ears, like, “Gosh, why does Fort Lee get such special treatment with traffic lanes? I mean, if this guy was a team player, on the right side of things, it might make some sense. He needs to be reminded in who’s pocket his testicles reside.” The message is fairly subtle: if you have millions of dollars at risk in a real estate development in New Jersey, you would be prudent to saw off a good chunk of that money to attain the estimable services of Wolf and Samson, attorneys. Naturally, you may reasonably expect that at least some of that money will find its way into the campaign coffers of solid and reliable public servants, as Wolf and Samson are keenly aware of their civic responsibility and the value of a business-friendly administration. Everybody else has been thrown under the bus but him. Developers and businessmen who were wise and prudent enough to utilize his expertise have thrived. Not always, of course, the people who lost out bidding for that project currently under such scrutiny might have reason to question their judgement. For whatever reason, the skills of Wolf and Samson did not produce the desired result. Well, golly, whatever can be done? How might prospective clients be reassured? Samson is a known power broker, it wouldn’t be much of a problem for him to drop the right suggestions in the right ears, broadly hinting that he represented the wishes of Christie, wink wink, say no more. The dupes in this scheme would think that it was nothing more than a bit of political hardball. Good clean fun, not extortion for gain. So, when Wildstein told Christie about the traffic problems in Fort Lee, he thought he was relaying news of his successful effort on Christie’s behalf. Christie says he paid no attention, it was too trivial a matter. Wildstein assumed that Christie knew about the scheme, as Samson led him to believe. Samson, being a lawyer and all, probably never explicitly said any such thing, nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more. Thus, it is entirely possible that, so far as this fiasco is concerned, Christie is as innocent as a lamb frolicking amongst the daffodils, as unique as a virgin in a U Tex sorority. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1096 "2014-03-28T19:09:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, now we have the report from a rock-solid no-nonsense, unbiased, and hard nosed investigative team, though its a pity they didn’t name it Operation Candor. > > \ > > So, all sorted out, then, nothing more to see here, you looky-loos, move along. I’ve only been sorta paying attention as this slow boring train wreck is pulled apart, but whatever negative impressions one can have of Christie I never thought stupid is one of them. But this governor’s inquiry/report he spent $1M on screams of stupidity and insult to anybody with the most basic of critical thinking abilities. If for no other reason, he should be voted out of office for this fuckshow. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1097 "2014-03-28T19:52:06Z")
1. I didn’t say I didn’t understand how to read roman numerals, just that it was odd you switched to them. Thanks for the link though, I could never found a similar link myself on the intertubes if I wanted to look it up. 2. “doorhinge “Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee,” I agree that Kelly’s email was, most likely, a signal to Port Authority’s Wildstein. Kelly and Port Authority’s Wildstein understood what it meant. I don’t. Federal investigators should offer Kelly a deal and find out what the message actually did mean. Before the political persecution committee screws up the criminal investigation any more than it already has. Was the phrase, “Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee,” an order to Port Authority’s Wildstein? Or was it a _one if by land, two if by sea_ kind of message that Port Authority’s Wildstein had requested Kelly to supply when the time was right?” Where in this excerpt do you address Kelly’s motivation? I see an examination of the communication between K and W, but **no** mention as to K’s _motives_? \*Why \*did she do what she did? Your theory? 3. Sorry for the capital “D”. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1098 "2014-03-28T19:57:21Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Yes, I did address the point of that sentence, IMHO, of course. Eh no, you totally missed it. Good try though ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1099 "2014-03-28T20:27:37Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > …Where in this excerpt do you address Kelly’s motivation? I see an examination of the communication between K and W, but **no** mention as to K’s _motives_? \*Why \*did she do what she did? Your theory? (post shortened for clarity) I have no idea what Patsy Kelly’s motivation was. Patsy Kelly hasn’t talk to the internal investigators, the political investigators, the criminal investigators, or the lame stream, frothing, hyper-ventilating, media. Maybe she hates the school children in Ft Lee? Maybe someone from Ft Lee tried to prevent her from eating cookies? Maybe Port Authority’s Wildstein has pictures of Patsy Kelly with naked farm animals? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351/1100 "2014-03-28T20:53:42Z")
She did it because she thought Christie wanted her to. Duh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-christie-or-his-staff-intentionally-cause-the-fort-lee-traffic-jam/678351.md?page=56)